Defend your property at your peril - again!

[cheddar-caveman]

My first thought was "well that's one less scum-bag on the streets" or "well he won't burgle again"!.

It will be interesting to see what happens here as the government has stated it will support people who defend their property.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/burglar-stabbed-death-during-break-090020251.html

[Chrisjay]

The issue here (as it has always been) is reasonable force.

You have always under the law been able to exercise reasonable force to protect yourself and your home but successive police forces and in particular the Public Prosecutors (DPP) have lost touch with what Mr Joe Bloggs deems is reasonable.

The definition used to be if someone broke in and had a knife you could pick up a knife in self defence but not a gun.  The difficulty then comes in if they have a lump of wood and you pick up a hammer or baseball bat is one a more powerful weapon than the other?


No allowance was made either for the force that the lump of wood could be used with i.e. little old lady wit ha baseball bat against a strapping 20 year old with the lump of wood. Or if a 15 year old weakling attacks a 17 stone man and the man gives him a black eye was that reasonable?  Personally you break in my house I will pick up and use any and anything available to me and to hell with the consequences providing I am still alive to worry about them.

When my son was about 10 in the middle of the day my house was invaded by two men who said they were from the water board and needed to see the man hole in the back garden.  I showed them through, next thing I knew one was holding a screwdriver to my son's throat while the other ransacked the house looking for items to steel.  They left with only my son's new ghetto blaster once they found I had no money in the house after that we both did courses run by the police on how to defend ourselves.  I was given a police batton when they had the wood ones with wrist straps (to stop you dropping it) and the next time someone tried to get in (the same house) I broke their shoulder (the moved house) and to this day there is always something handy to use to defend myself even if its the big retractable dogs lead or at present I have a woodsmans axe (antique of course) on the wall near the door.  The most important lesson I learnt from the police it is not strength but intelligence that protects you and panic kills.

Personally I think this announcement is smoke and mirrors as there needs to be clear legislation as to the definition of 'reasonable', the idea that it can be left to the DPP to define that is far from comforting to the general public.  We NEED to know just what action we can take to protect ourselves and our property without fear of prosecution and not have to rely on 'guidelines' open to a huge variety of interpretations by people who have never been in the position of fearing for their lives.

[cheddar-caveman]

I have played cricket most of my life and, of course, have cricket bats around the house. In my day I have hit many a six and four defending my wickets against a ball hell bent on breaking into them! If I can do that to one ball, imagine what I could do to two 

[Chrisjay]

Two is a good number 

[Rita Postlethwaite]

I wouldn`t be afraid to defend our home in any way that I considered necessary never mind what a certain policeman or government official might deem too much force!  ::)I love the cricket bat idea Cheddar caveman, might consider it in exchange for the VERY LARGE hammer that Jeff keeps beside the bed, for DIY purposes, of course! 

[Chrisjay]

It is always about why its there not what it was used for

When my shop kept getting broken into I mentioned a 2 x 4 and the police said 'of course he brought it with him and you picked it up when he dropped it'

Always though the best items are ones with wrist straps so it cannot be taken off you and used against you so maybe as part of the DIY it should get a hole and a leather strap:-) so it hangs on the hook in the shed when not in use of course

[Angelo]

I fear that when it comes to the crunch this Lilly Livered Government will do their usual on this and back down.
Can you believe anything that Ken Clarke says ?
The trouble is the English Language, Reasonable Force. So ambiguous as to make it impossible to specify.
Lets see ?

[cheddar-caveman]

Now here's an interesting statement from the man himself........

Justice Secretary Ken Clarke today said stabbing a burglar to defend your home will be legal under government plans.

He insisted homeowners would be able to use "whatever force necessary" in their homes.

Mr Clarke illustrated plans for a "Tony Martin law", named after the Norfolk farmer who was jailed for shooting a teenage burglar dead.

He told the BBC: "If an old lady finds she has got an 18-year-old burgling her house and she picks up a kitchen knife and sticks it in him, she has not committed a criminal offence and we will make that clear. There is no doubt that you or I or anybody else is entitled to use reasonable force to defend ourselves or our homes, or both."

But there was confusion over whether ministers will introduce new laws on self-defence. Mr Clarke had vowed to "bring forward legislation" but now says the Government is "clarifying the law".

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23965683-ken-clarke-its-legal-to-stab-a-burglar.do

[Angelo]

What did I say, already backtracking, cant wait till they come up with the final verdict.
Mr Clarke in his usual consise mode !

[cheddar-caveman]

Well, well, well! Common sense has prevailed for once, but what precedence has been set here! I feel happier having my cricket bat by the bed

[Angelo]

I wouldn't take this as verbatim just yet, wait till the lawyers have taken a case thro the courts. Because of the perverse  way our law works. This could be a complete red herring.

[caminito]

A householder who was arrested on suspicion of murdering a burglar is to be released without charge.

Peter Flanagan, 59, was held after the death of John Bennell, 27, who died from a stab wound to the chest after a number of masked men tried to break into Mr Flanagan's home in Salford.

Nazir Afzal, Chief Crown Prosecutor for the North-West, said: 'I have today told the police of my decision that Peter Flanagan should not face any charges in connection with the death of John Bennell, an intruder who broke into his home in Salford on 22 June.'

Mr Afzal added: 'I am satisfied that Peter Flanagan acted in self-defence after being woken by noises downstairs in his house shortly before midnight. On investigating the disturbance he was confronted by intruders, one of whom was armed with a machete.

'In reaching this decision I have looked carefully at the evidence that the police have presented in this case and have taken into consideration the Crown Prosecution Service policy on householders and the use of force against intruders.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017669/He-used-reasonable-force-self-defence-Homeowner-stabbed-burglar-death-raid-face-charges.html#ixzz1Sq3Cbttk

[Chrisjay]

This is good news for everyone and sends the message if you break into someones home accept the consequences

However I am sure Mr Flanagan will never forget the incident

[Rita Postlethwaite]

At last they have got things right but let us hope that it sticks!  you are right Chrisjay, Mr Flanagan will suffer for the rest of his life.

[cheddar-caveman]

Yes, poor man. However, as far as I'm concerned, anybody comes through my gate intent on crime leaves their "rights" on the pavement. As I said at the first posting, one less yob around to terrorise other innocent people!