Brown Bringing the Labour Party & Country Down

[Ivanhoe]

No I cannot. 

But if you didnt know that EU workers pay much higher income tax rates than British workers then what can I say to that ?

[radar41]

So you are making statements then freely admit you cannot back them up with any kind of evidence ?

[Ivanhoe]

We do not share the EU's high income taxes, pensions, or welfare state, Blair's 2005 three red lines constituation saw to that.

The EU do not have our unjust local tax system, their vital services are funded through higher rates of income tax.

[Papaumau]

Great reading guys if a bit hot at times !

I have heard the "tax-and-spend" indictment levelled at the Labourites for years but actually that is what tax is for is it not ?

Nobody is going to raise taxes and keep them in a tin box under the proverbial bed in number eleven are they ?

The point here is WHAT they spend the money on !

I say - being an old Labour Socialist - that the taxes taken from "the people" should be spent ON the people so that we - who need it most - get the most of it. This has not been the case in recent years as the treasury has been far too willing to spend money on political pet-projects while the important needs of the people - especially the elderly people - are not being served at all. ( We have a lot to learn from the European states here, as far as this is concerned ).

I wholeheartedly agree with Ivanhoe that Blair's New-Labour lurched over to the right to appease the Tory voters and while that seemed to work as far as getting landslide election wins is concerned, it meant that to fulfill the pledges made to this "swingometer-fodder" the New-Labour  Party had to forget it's roots and  start to behave something like an ersatz Tory Party.

NOW....we see the electorate leaning towards the REAL right-wingers once again and because of THIS latest lurch we are going to get Thatcherism back in all of it's past glory.

Someone once said...."Be careful what you wish for as you might just get it !"

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, Absolutely spot on.

And with New Labour having moved to the right wing, Cameron's right wingers have nowhere to go.

So Cameron cherry picks from Tory policy under New Labour hoping to grab a few votes at the next general election.

There are far to many people in this country who truly believe that New Labour is a "Labour" government.

And of course while the media, the Tories, and the Lib-Dems continue to refere to New Labour as Labour, the propoganda continues.

[radar41]

You obviously havent a clue.

All I can tell you is that Euro zone workers pay higher income tax rates than UK workers, this information has been verified by a Liberal Democrat MP whom I know, but you probably wont believe that either.

And you wonder why your attempts at campaigning always fail to get off the ground.

[Ivanhoe]

I dont wonder anything of the sort, and I dont know you either, thank god.

You obviously have no idea of how the EU works, if you did you would know their income taxes are vastly higher than ours.

[Wrinkles]

Papa, You are not very wrong about tax and spend and Labour nor are you very right
I recall my old Dad explaining this to me. He likened the tax revenue the government got as the household income, it paid for the food, clothing,  the utility bills, to redecorate the lounge or buy a new kitchen, a pint in the local on Saturday night. Now and then there was some left over with which we could afford a holiday. Much as his income did.
In some households however a lot of this money got sidetracked into paying for excessive beer and fags, fancy clothes and when it wasn't enough a new TV, a new car and a foreign holiday were bought, all on the HP. Because this family was spending their money before they got it they got more and more on HP until they couldn't meet the payments and were evicted.
Can you guess which family he likened to the Labour party? if you need a clue, it wasn't the former.
This was way back in the early 50's although he hadn't changed his mind in the 80's

A wise man my father, he was not a dyed in the wool tory he just went for the lesser of evils.

[Wrinkles]

I dont wonder anything of the sort, and I dont know you either, thank god.

You obviously have no idea of how the EU works, if you did you would know their income taxes are vastly higher than ours.

OK then the EU income taxes are higher than ours but then they have to be as they don't have the myriad of stealth taxes and taxes on taxes exorbitant payments for things like passports etc that we have to endure.
Income tax is only a small part of the picture. Come back with some comparable figures on overall taxation that shows that the EU is higher taxed than we are and I'll vote for Gordon next spring.

[Papaumau]

Papa, You are not very wrong about tax and spend and Labour nor are you very right
I recall my old Dad explaining this to me. He likened the tax revenue the government got as the household income, it paid for the food, clothing,  the utility bills, to redecorate the lounge or buy a new kitchen, a pint in the local on Saturday night. Now and then there was some left over with which we could afford a holiday. Much as his income did.
In some households however a lot of this money got sidetracked into paying for excessive beer and fags, fancy clothes and when it wasn't enough a new TV, a new car and a foreign holiday were bought, all on the HP. Because this family was spending their money before they got it they got more and more on HP until they couldn't meet the payments and were evicted.
Can you guess which family he likened to the Labour party? if you need a clue, it wasn't the former.
This was way back in the early 50's although he hadn't changed his mind in the 80's

A wise man my father, he was not a dyed in the wool tory he just went for the lesser of evils.

Few would argue with THAT premise as "The budget" is supposed to equate with how we buget for our own homes.

I believe that the "tax-and-spend " indictment is not really what should be levelled at the New-Labourites; it is the "borrow and spend" that is getting us into deep do-do at the moment.

Just like the analogy with the home economy the national economy should NOT be run on borrowed money if the interest payments alone cannot be serviced, never mind the repayments of the capital sum.

As I said in my own forum: it is not about how much is spent but it is about what it is spent on and where the money comes from that is being spent !