France

[Hugh]

We have all been envious of the standard of living in France. Excellent pensions early retirement and more bankholidays. Transport structure better than ours. We have admired at the way workers went on strike to get their way and its been said on this forum we should follow suit.

Its now coming to light its all been done on the never never. The fanasy world is now coming to an end. Two banks have been down graded and a third being carefully watch. I am quite interested to see what happens next. I expect the same as whats about to happen in UK over the coming year but even worse.

[Rita Postlethwaite]

We wait with bated breath Hugh.

[Hugh]

In UK the public sector workers although they do have a, contract and it should be fulfilled, but the contract should never have been made in the first place. The private sector putting 5 in the pot and getting 3 out, where as the public sector putting 3 in and getting 5 out.

The union bosses will draw their £100,000 odd wages while their workers suffer with a battle they will not be allowed to win and the union bosses know it.

On the other hand the strikes may never happen because I understand there are only 15% of workers in a trade union.

We just have to wait and see.

[Dottie1943]

Hugh people don't have to belong to a union to demonstrate as you know, and I think you would find that if the other 85% believed in the cause they would go along with the demonstration.

[Hugh]

So true.

[Papaumau]

Hugh said:

We have all been envious of the standard of living in France. Excellent pensions early retirement and more bankholidays. Transport structure better than ours. We have admired at the way workers went on strike to get their way and its been said on this forum we should follow suit.

Yes we HAVE and not just envious of France either, but of most of the other members of the EU as it is now known that we in Britain have the worst state pensions in all of modern Europe.

Of course such high-quality pensions have to be paid for and without getting into the borrowing requirements of each member-state I am sure that their higher standard taxes help to pay for those benefits too.

In Britain all flavours of political groups have been trying to outdo each other by NOT raising direct taxation but in order to do this they have had to raise the stealth taxes over and over again.

We pensioners very seldom see any of the stealth taxes as they are spent in many more ways than raising our state pensions.

Rather than having a go at the pension standards in France and elsewhere  I think that we should be having a go at our governments for spending our taxes wrongly.

[Hugh]

The French workers have a shock in store they have done well up to now they could be in a worse state than Greece. Two banks already been down graded and a third been warn.

Our pensions should be much higher but Blair and Brown would sooner spend our money on wars and allowing the welfare state to get out of control, and every tom dick and harry getting our money. Drunks and Druggy getting £40 for each on top of unemployment money.

It would be interesting to know if pensions abroad are as good as we think they are taking cost of living,.  into account. In Uk I can buy bread at £1 a loaf in Tenerife we were paying £3, same goes for milk cheese coffee.

Over to you on that one I don't know. All I do know is go to any airport and you will see thousands of UK pensioners heading out for some winter sun shine. In Tenerife we are known as the Swallows

[Dottie1943]

The Swallows actually also help the Government and in particular the NHS because by going to the sun they are healthy and when they come back they feel well for the coming year.

[Thesheriff]

Hugh,

Groceries / Bread etc. in the foreign lands  I have found only cost a lot more if you insist on buying the  imported English Brands - you have to pay for the transport costs  - If you buy the local goods they cost a lot less.

Several years ago we had neighbours - who when she went back on a visit to the UK - went with a case-full of presents for her grand children - she had her own clothes at her Daughters in the UK - on her return she brought back English Foodstuffs ?  One visit she brought back 6 Cabbages - because they tasted better than the Spanish ones

Another time on the run up to Xmas - she teased me from November onwards on her return - about something she had brought back as a special treat for our group Xmas Dinner - When they arrived with their contribution to the meal - the surprise turned out to be Fresh Brussel  Sprouts - because in her words ' You cannot get them here in Spain '.

She was most surprised when I pointed out that we had already got Brussel Sprouts cooked - bought only the day before fresh from the Market where they must have had tons of them - and ours were fresh - whereas hers had been deep frozen since the first week in November ??

As regards Pensions abroad - as I have stated only this week in another section - our Pensions last year - I do have to record them accurately for our Spanish Tax returns - were thanks to the exchange rates { which are now worse } € 3,600 less than they were in 2007 - so our disposable income has reduced dramatically -  another reason why we do not buy imported { English } foods.

A new Iceland store has recently opened in our area - it had been open for about 6 weeks before we ventured in - nearly everything is marked with UK prices on the packets - but shown also & charged in €uros at an exchange of approx 1.4 so an Item priced at £ 5.00 would be charged at € 7.00 - In some cases the exact same brand can be bought in Spanish supermarkets for less - and a Spanish equivalent for less still.

We now always call in whenever we are out shopping - but just to see if there are any bargains in the    ' out of date section ' but even these have to be looked at - even the reduced price is more than we would normally pay in the Spanish stores  - our usual purchase from this section are Pork Pies { Checked the ' Sell By ' date on Friday } they should be moved today - these are an item the Spanish do not make.

I have stood behind people at the till - and quite honestly they have been charged more for one carrier bag of foods than we would be charged for a weeks shop in Mercadona  which is the largest  Supermarket Chain out here - and lots of folk regard them as expensive !  
We use them because the quality is good - similar to Sainsbury's or Morrison's in the UK - there are cheaper supermarkets  that are not much different than the same kind of groups in the UK.

[Papaumau]

Sheriff...

I think that a lot of ex-pats from Britain go to Spain and other European countries because life is easier and cheaper there and not just for the sun - even if that must be a consideration too.

The cost of living and the stealth tax cost in Britain must be higher than the equivalent in Spain and that too is why so many Brits go abroad to live.

While the state pension IS much better for those that are Spanish indigents I believe that their direct taxation is much higher too.

What I would like to find out is: a). If our direct taxes were like those in Spain, would our state pensions be better as a result ? AND.... if the Spanish people paid less direct taxes and were - like us - hammered for stealth taxes, would their state pensions be as bad as ours are ?

Maybe that is a question we will never know the answer to ?

[Thesheriff]

Papaumau,

The taxes in Spain are a lot less than in the UK - mainly because the service is less than what you are used to in the UK and probably would not put up with.  examples.

Rubbish.   We paid € 40.00 per year to get rid of our household rubbish - but not by collection from our home - no one has dustbins or Wheelies -  this payment entitled us to use any large Green Bin at the roadside and being way out in the countryside our nearest was 12 Klms away.

Water. We paid € 160.00 per year for mains water - but it was not drinking quality - we had to buy that in - and supplies due to the fact it is a precious commodity out here - the supply went off regularly without any warning - one week our area would get water - the following week we could have none because it was going to another area - we were  without a water supply for one time for 8 weeks - this due to a shortage coupled with a major breakdown of a pump  -  after the first 2 weeks when our  2,000 litre Storage Tank ran dry we had to carry every bit in from local wells - it was soon after this I built a 30,000 litre deposit.  No chance of the Water Company suddenly rushing a Bowser to the bottom
of our road because the supply was off.

Electricity. There are still many country areas that do not have an electricity supply at all - we lived in our last property for 8 years before Electricity was brought to that valley, and when it came it was subject to constant Power Cuts because although our supply and the infrastructure was new - is was fed by old infrastructure from 25 / 30 years ago that had trouble coping with the increased demands.

Post.  The nearest our post was delivered was 12 Klms away - to a Post Box we had to buy ourselves.

Daily Delivery of Milk & Papers.  You must be joking 15 Klms for these.

Rates.  On the other hand having just sold our last house in May - we have had to just pay the IBI { Local Rates } on it - this was the first IBI  we have had to pay even though we have lived here in our own properties for 12 years nearly - the system is so slow it takes up to 5 years from Registering a property in the Catastral   { Property Register } before they get around to sending bills out -  This bill was for € 685.00 and that was for a house which was 475 Sq Mts in living area { it was big } My last rates in the UK for a property of about 150 Sq Mts was in the year 2000  £ 1,300.00 so we are better off in that area.

We also had to pay IBI for the land we owned  7 acres  - this came to the princely sum of € 6.00 per year.

Petrol Etc. Is still a bit cheaper than in the UK & unlike the UK where it goes up but never seems to go down - our Pump prices can & do fluctuate up & down on a daily basis  - you can go to the same station in the afternoon and pay a different price than the same morning.

TV.  There are no TV Licences to buy - but with Spanish TV you have to put up with advertising which can run for 20 mins at a time - Most ex-pats have Sky - which is actually illegal to ' Download ' out here - you are supposed to reside in the UK - and there is talk of it being Cut Off later this year - whether it will or not only time will tell - but there are other services which can be used.

Health Service.  Again a big difference -  I do not know how it is in the UK now having left in 2000 - but out here there  will be one Ward or Wing with lots of One or Two Bed rooms off it - all with en-suite facilities -  to my knowledge there has not be one case of MRSA in Spain - because when ever you enter a hospital you stand a chance of being knocked over by cleaners - they are all over the place Mopping & Disinfecting floors and other surfaces the public will touch all day long -  including during the night albeit on a reduced scale.  

The downside is  the Nurses are only there for Medical Services -  a patient is expected to have a family member in attendance 24/7 to cater for non-medical needs - ie. feeding if you cannot feed yourself or assisting to the toilet & showering etc.  

There are no set visiting times - visitors are only asked to leave when the doctor is making his daily visit to the patient - both of us  having been in hospital have coped OK - even though if your fellow patient is Spanish and insists on having the TV on all waking hours including around 11.00 pm & when possibly 10 visitors turn up for a party because it's his Birthday and stay until 1 or 2 am - but you are usually asked to join in with the Wine and Cakes etc.

Our current situation is that because there are the two of us this causes no problems - but I am still waiting to find out { this next month should clarify it } how long I may possibly have to live - hopefully the news will be good and I will have
a few more years -  but it is touch and go at present - My Wife though when she becomes a Widow intends to stay on here - we have discussed this thoroughly - until she starts having major health problems - she then because we have no relatives to look after her  will have to  return to live with our Son in the UK.


I think I have covered a quite a lot above - if you have any specific areas you would like to know about - just ask I will if possible supply the info.

Fred.

[Hugh]

Bread wise we bought a local loaf or believe local was also over 3 euro and not very nice.

The question I first asked is their state pension better than ours in terms of standard of living?

 

[Papaumau]

Thanks for all that info Sheriff as it is good to see the ins and outs of what it is like to be a British ex-pat in Spain.

I believe that the basic state pension in Spain is around €877 or £763 per month and that blows away what we get in Britain. I also understand that even foreigners can claim the Spanish state pension if they have been living in Spain and generating credits for more than fifteen years.

Here are a couple of interesting sites I found that talk about such things:

http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/17715/spanish-state-retirement-pension-rises-to-87712-euros-a-month
http://valencia.angloinfo.com/countries/spain/pensions1.asp

While it is obvious by that amount of info' that you gave us that for you, and where you live, there is a lot of "swings and roundabouts" in the benefits of living in Spain, as opposed to Britain.

I STILL do believe that the direct taxation that is levied in Spain is much more than it is in Britain while the stealth taxes there are not nearly as severe as we have here.

The reason that is given by many experts as to why the state pension in Spain is so good is because, over the 35 years that are required to generate the "pot" which is spread around the Spaniards in a state pension, the taxes paid into that fund are larger than we pay into the social security funds via national insurance back in Blighty.

One thing that IS much better in Spain is that they are not afraid to raise the state pension each year because of inflation so that the state pension is properly protected from inflation. The last rise was said to be around 4.9%.

It is a very long time since the state pension in Britain was increased by an amount like that.

I might just sell my home, pack my bags and join you there, in the sun !

[Hugh]

But does that £760 get them a better standard of living than we get on our pension?

[Dottie1943]

Hugh and Papa

The OAP's in Spain are called the 3rd age I quiet like that as apposed to OAP, the government send their seniors on an annual holiday to first class hotels full board and about five trips incorporated in this holiday, they take them to the resort by coach and bring them back the same way.this costs about ten euros per annum! 

They also make sure that their 3rd ages are cared for and need for nothing.