George Osborns Speech

[Dottie1943]

Ditto

[Papaumau]

Ha Ha....Sparky....

That is usually the position I find myself in, as I seldom take the majority view in anything.

One thing - or maybe a few things - that I will finally say about this subject are:

I have always believed - naively maybe - that if we are to be humane humans and we are to be able to call ourselves "civilised" then we have to consider how we can help other humans who are living in terrible conditions that are not of their making.

Just because we might feel that the home governments of these foreign countries should do what needs to be done, because they often don't, I see it as our duty as civilised human beings to help where we can .

Believe me I DO see your argument that we should have a say in how our taxes are spent on overseas aid and while that is a laudable idea it is not a very practical one as by electing any government to be able to do this - and many other things, on our behalf - we are trusting them to do right by us. In other words this is not something that can be done as well as it should be done outwith the control of national governments.

There are plenty of aid agencies that ask us for monetary help in what they do but even they cannot often do what needs to be done via private contributions as either they are often very top-heavy in management costs, ( which discourages us from giving freely to them ), or they are just not big enough or efficient enough to do all the work that needs to be done properly.

THIS is where national government aid comes in and where large amounts of money can be generated which is probably the only way that this aid can get to those that need it quickly enough to save thousand of lives.

I am thinking of natural disasters here as much as about situations that come about by war or terrorism and I think that in these cases the only way that aid can get to those that need it is via DIRECT and governmental aid.

Every modern and developed country has budgets set aside to pay for this DUTY and it is only those that don't that are usually the cause rather than the cure for such awful situations.

Believe me that the money IS there; it is just in the hands of people that are skilled at hiding this money from their governments. I say GET that money from these rich and privileged classes and give it to the people at home and abroad that need it.

Once we have done that we can then truly call ourselves civilised.

[sparky]

Papaumau, I think its fair to say that our view of DUTY differs, I see my DUTY to my family, friends, and to the past and present CONTRIBUTERS of our society, and if at the end of that I feel any duty towards other societies that's for ME to decide, who and how I help, I do make an exception however to sudden disasters around the world where we should help if possible. But  with life saving drugs being denied to cancer patients and others, together with past elderly tax payers dying of hypothermia in the winter, the Idea of sending aid to very dubious causes abroad I find appalling.
But my original post was as much about the sheer arrogance of a bunch of selfcentered egotists in Westminster whose Wages and EXPENCES we pay, totally ignoring overwhelming public opinion on aid and other serious issues I find completely wrong, and as for your idea that we should trust our elected representatives to do the right thing I find laughable, when in fact most of the decisions made by them are for their own or their wealthy cronies interests, one classic example could be the Iraq war when I believe 80/90 % of the British public were opposed to it, but were dismissed without a second thought, and I think history has shown the public opposition to be well founded

[Papaumau]

Yes Sparky, you have made that point very clear and nobody with any reasoning capabilities would be able to deny that kind of thinking as being true.

STILL... you seem to miss the point that I make that all of the VERY RICH developed countries of the world - including Britain - have a "duty" to get this money from the rich that are holding on to it so tightly so that we - the ordinary people of Britain - do not need to always be the ones that are used as a bottomless well of finance.

If this is done right and the ones that have the millions or billions or even trillions of pounds and dollars salted away are taxed properly then we should be able to afford to EASILY help both the poor and the sick and the destitute in Britain and in America - and elsewhere - AND help in the third world countries who's innocents are suffering so badly from war and pestilence and natural disasters.

If it is done in this way then people like you and me that might have a few bob left after we give voluntarily to private aid organisations will still have enough left to be able to look after our own families and our personal responsibilities.

Yes Sparky...I think that - if done right - we certainly can do BOTH.

[Humbug Ant]

So what is the lovely Gideon doing about the banks? What is he doing about gas, electricity, water and telephone prices?   Of course, he lets them rise, but pensioners' winter allowances he reduces by 20 and 25% respectively.   The man is a coward and a bully! ! !

[Dottie1943]

Humbug Ant

Welcome to the forum and in answer to your questions, nothing, nothing, nothing and I agree with you he is a bully who can intimidate us pensioners because he can and our elected MPs are allowing him to do so,I can't wait to be able to see my MP face to face when he is campaigning for the next election to see how he tries to get my vote,NOT!!!!!!!!

[Papaumau]

Yes Dottie, this government in their crazy cutting panic are also burning many of their bridges even before they cross them never mind burning them AFTER they have crossed over.

As time goes by this weak government ( "weak" because they do not have a mandate to govern without the few votes of their unholy Lib-Dem partnership keeping them viable ).

Even if they do a big give-away just before the next general election, ( as most dying governments do ), I think that the electorate will be well-wise of their selfish policies by then and they will go the way that previous "selfish" governments have gone. 

[granny bee]

And  what alternative do we have to vote for?  Money grabbing Blair is a prime example of the main stream parties.!

[Papaumau]

Well Grannie Bee.... you did ask ......

What I want to see next time round is a PROPER Labour Party in charge that gleans all of the best bits of recent truly Socialist government. ( As I said elsewhere...not Blair's version of New-Labour BTW ).

I want the rather green-in-the-gills Ed Miliband to take advice from the real Labour men in his party, ( not his brother David BTW as he IS a Blairite ), and to take Labour back to it's roots.

I am sure that if he, Ed Miliband, is able to do this and is also able to remember his Father's vision, ( He was a Marxist intellectual ), I am sure that we may find a fresh new face in British politics where the needs of the people will come first and well before the needs of the fat-cat bankers and at last we may find some justice for the poor and the sick and the old in Britain.

That my dear, is my dream, as I think we have seen enough of selfish and carenought right-wing politics in Britain.