21 millionaires in Cameron's Cabinet.....

[Papaumau]

It was reported last week that this was the case and it makes me wonder how such a government can dare to say, ( David Cameron's words ), "We are all in this together!".

It is total nonsense that such a thing should be said when it is obvious that these people are not "in it" with us and that they are protected from the austerity and the hardship that these people have thrust upon us by their draconian cuts and the effect these cuts are having on our economy.

It is even worse that it should be true that there are also more ex-Etonians in the present Con-Dem Cabinet than there has been in Britain's government since the days of tory hard-man and elitist Harold MacMillan

What do you think of that then ?

[stevepas]

Good post.

Just the kind of info I like, something to sink whats left of my teeth into

Question
Were they millionaires before they got into office or
have they had their hands in the 2nd home allowance/parachute payment/lobbygate/expenses till?

[Papaumau]

No mate they were millionaires long before they finished up as Cabinet members. The gravy train that they are now riding along in just helps to keep their standards of life up to what they are used to.

Some Tory-supporters, ( even the poor ones that kid themselves on ), will say that that is just the "politics of envy" but I think that admitting to the fact that this is true is not just being envious of these rich and privileged ones, it is highlighting the point that in any fair society this should NEVER be the case.

While I am quite well off now - thank you - I still know what it was like to be originally very poor and as I can see both sides of this particular coin I have to admit that while rich, many waking hours are spent attempting to hang on to as much of these riches as we can. It is basic human instinct !

That is why I say that the caring ones in this society should work very hard to ensure that this inequity does not continue to happen so that at least the bottom end can be raised above that level and so that the poor can be lifted out of poverty.

A wise man once said to me: "If the super-rich were taxed just a little bit more they would STILL be super-rich but if that money was given to the super-poor it would raise them up out of poverty a lot!"

[stevepas]

Unfortunately the balance sheet of caring versus money stockpiling, is rather large.

The caring world is in the column located on the otherside of the universe, the only people who can afford to reach it are some multi-millionaires, some of whom seem to be rather enthusiastic about pushing it further away.

I'm having trouble trying to find anything to pin the description of Society on.

The only carers I know are located right at the bottom of the pile, on little or no income looking after a relative, the reason they are on a low or little income is because they care.
I'm very familiar with this world.

My past work used to have me talking to city bankers and visiting mutli-million pound homes including a home where the owners were apparently multi-billionaire bankers.
One lower grade banker (four bed new house, bmw or two, seaside resort)
said of his superiors "If you were on a multi-million pound bonus where would you be? The golf course or work"
This was pre 07.
Had some interesting conversations about how some of the banks operated, I felt sorry for some of the lower grade staff.

Previous governments help germinate the Greed seed but Blair's new tory/labour really piled the....fertilizer on, now its leggy, can't support itself and has borne no fruit.

[Papaumau]

Nice gardening analogy Stevepas !

The only way that this iniquitous situation will be sorted is if some brave and radical government actually do something to narrow that rich/poor gap.

While it is true that the last New-Labour government actually succeeded in making it worse, I do not think that this Tory-led coalition is going to be liable to fix it either.

If only we could believe their promises and even start to trust them we would then know exactly where to lay our little crosses.

[stevepas]

Very good point.

For me, I see minor differences in the new lib/lab/CONs as compared with the previous blair new tory/labour.

This modern lot are making Thatcher look good.

To get a good leader I think as far back as Churchill (although he had some problems in his early years)

But the most appropriate person to lead would be, don't laugh Cromwell.
I've forgotten a lot about Cromwell but I seem to remember Cromwell ended up having to 'take-over' parliament because of things like corruption, times don't change!

I also seem to remember that King Charles wanted the english to raise an army and invade scotland, the english refused and instead with Cromwell at the head took the fight to the King instead, nice move.

Cromwell was rather brutal with the Irish though, but I think it was to do with English and Scottish settlers in Ireland being slaughted so in goes Cromwell's New Model Army, a truly formidable army.
Another slaughter to add the global archives.
I think there were some battles or threat of war from the traditional enemy, France, at about the same time?

The whole Catholic/Protestant thing has been very bloody, one side's factions do evil things to the other and vice versa, like a ping/pong ball that never runs out of momentum.

I really need to re-visit some history, my memory is a tad rusty !

[Papaumau]

Yes Stevepas, we can look back into a lot of our history and still not find what we might call a decent and honest political leader that was not driven by dogma and selfishness. Sadly most politicians are only in it to feather their own nests and very few of them really try to SERVE as they should.

I get your point about Cromwell as he was the first real Parliamentian, but he was also a very cruel man when he took up arms against the Royalists.

I am sure that the whole idea of parliament and of the "rule of the people, for the people and by the people" is probably the best way to go but there is one great flaw in "people" in general, and that is that when they get the chance to use the power they might have been given by democratic election they very often use this power to better their own needs and not the needs of the nation.

OK, I know that that is a quite cynical view, but I also think that even IF we use democracy to generate what should be known as "the people's representatives" we still need to keep a good eye on them if we are to stop them from indulging in too much self-engradisement instead of looking after OUR needs.

[stevepas]

I am sure that the whole idea of parliament and of the "rule of the people, for the people and by the people" is probably the best way to go but there is one great flaw in "people" in general, and that is that when they get the chance to use the power they might have been given by democratic election they very often use this power to better their own needs and not the needs of the nation.

OK, I know that that is a quite cynical view, but I also think that even IF we use democracy to generate what should be known as "the people's representatives" we still need to keep a good eye on them if we are to stop them from indulging in too much self-engradisement instead of looking after OUR needs.

spot-on

I don't think your being cynical actually I think your being very fair and generous.

What I often write is definitely cynical,

Stand by for an example,

Cromwell was undoubtly brutal and cruel, but for me there are times were he should have been more brutal!

e.g., I'm not totaly sure how it happened, but I think Cromwell spared the kings life, only to find that was a big mistake.
He never made that mistake again, off came the kings head!

He was up against the same enemy we are today, where, if you don't get every single cell of the malignancy it will re-appear.

How many democratic nations and how many centuries of democracy have led us to the dire situation we are in today?

For me democracy in principle is a good concept, but in reality, in practice it is a disaster.
Communism in principle good idea, in practice disaster same issue small handful of nuts living the life of riley while as usual the rest subsidise it.

All these ideologies need a strong parent to curtail its 'destructive enthusiasm'.
There is nothing to stop the deceit, the corruption, propaganda, manipulation, the ulterior motives, the incompetence.

To much damage has been done under the tenancy of democracy.

Wars for example, you would expect, would be reliant on dictators and despots.
But Blair alone has had 5 of them, although I think 'WMD' Blair is a closet dictator/despot, so that might explain it, but, he was democratically elected and then abused his position (standard procedure)

Time for a cast iron constitution that cannot be bent or corrupted to suit the lunatic plans of the powerful handful.

Any change to that constitution will legally oblige the armed forces and the people (lawful rebellion?) to march on the new parliament and imprison the guilty occupants for treachery.

The new political ideology should be based on
1 sustainability
2 protection of indigenious culture and ideals, that's why all immigrants are here, because here is different and better than where they came from, to import their culture, practices and impose it (see sharia) here is to defeat the object of coming here in the first place !
3 no wars unless to defend your nations passport-holding citizens and their land
eg (falklands war)
4 tight controls of the aforementioned seed of greed.
We have heamorraged industry, jobs and money just to make an extra quid for someone who already has too much,
(The following are just a part of what I have personally experienced the past couple of years)
Phone calls from companies that are trying to rip you-off even though you are with the tps,
Call-centres that manage to turn a simple request into a loss of service for a month,
Plc's who sub-contract to mutilpe sub contracters who don't communicate with each other, and you correct the plc on work done because they are two steps behind the game.

All in the name of extra profit.

You can probably see where I'm going, so I will stop.......for a moment

[Oldtimer]

No Flat caps in this government!
I think most of them have inherited wealth so have never had the problem of work.
Government is almost a hobby for them.
They stumble about not knowing what to do next.
Previous contributers have written about history and historical figures.
It is my fear that we are going back to the bad old days.
Ordinairy people are starting to protest against the unfairness dumped upon them and perhaps
thats what we need a quiet revolution not like the Arab spring with its violence. But pesistant protest and the right vote at the ballot box. If the is not a party to support make one I hate to say it but a party that supports the people but not communism with its all faults.
The Trouble is raising major support I am reminded of my Local supermarket that has a big dumper
and its for cats.People stuff it with cat food.
There are major problems of feeding the poor and impovrished in our green and pleasent land no dumper for them?
The politicion millionairs do not know what it is to live on the bread line.No job kids to bring up,benefit cuts,
leaving school Jobless,Trying to pay for a college education the list goes on an on.
When are people going to get angry and not put up with it anymore?

[stevepas]

The more searching I do, to get a better grasp of how bad things are,
the more I find the less re-assured I am that the whole debt/immigration mechanism is not going cause something pretty dramatic.

We are already very short of houses, and jobs, but immigrants are still coming in as high as ever http://blogs.telegra...eepless-nights/

regarding debt,
we've just printed another load of it, unless the chinese can pick it up, they already apparently 'own america'.
We can pray that they can use their massive financial muscle to save their already technically banckrupt customers from themselves.
It seems that the only way these banckrupt nations can finance theirselves is use Quantative inflation, (they call it QE.)

Here are a couple of funny very good aussie clips, (very Bird and Fortune)
Aussie's Clarke and Dawe explain how the financial system works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOzR3UAyXao&feature=grec_index
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_3T-Af57Pg&feature=related

My posts might make you think I'm gloomy but these links didn't half make me laugh!

[Papaumau]

Great discussion guys !

I think that if we were allowed to control life in Britain we would fix it very quickly ! ( Or would we ? ).

The great problem with omnipotent power in one or a couple of individuals means that megalomania is only a very short step away.

Wouldn't it be nice if every dictator or oligarch was driven by fairness and a desire for civilised conduct ?

I am afraid that when too much power is in the hands of only a few people that that power almost always and immediately corrupts the individuals and turns them into despots and mass-murderers, ( Pol Pot comes to mind here ).

If that IS the case then all we are left with is Democracy with which to rule and to serve any large or small group of people anywhere in the world.

Yes guys, democracy is NOT perfect but it is all we have until some super-human "homo-superior" person comes around, has the power to take over the world, and does the job right.

But wait a minute....That person or entity would be God, would it not ? 

[stevepas]

Good point, I think its very fixable, very quickly, but you need to have balls, un-corrupted by multiculturalism, greed, extreme political correctness....
I recount a piece about teachers being advised not to use words like black and finding coloured pieces of paper for kids to write on because white paper was not advisable!

The nearest I can get is the likes of UKIP and Nigel Farage, certainly on Europe UKIP and their representatives have nailed the problems and offered some credible solutions instead of what you normally here from your average waffler (politician).

The biggest problem I can see for UKIP is takling the banking/business issue,
the zeitgeist/federal reserve series of youtube clips gives a very interesting take on the tactics the financial system could/would? use.

The only problem with god is who translates his/her messages, many centuries has demonstrated some of the pitfalls.

[Oldtimer]

Most countries in the past have for what ever reason claimed God is on their side. Got Mit Huns.
This situation with our government reminds me of an old fairy story.
The Emporers New cloths.
Some tricksters convinced the Emporer when he was naked that he was wearing superior cloths and only excellent people could see them.
Visualise David Cameron wearing a suit just like this and asking George
Osbourne what he thought of them
"David they are great look at the CUTS of the cloth".
"Everyone around the world will admire them"
No one else could wear such a brilliant Suit
and you can take it from there!!!

[Hugh]

Question is= Is it better to have ready made millionaires in charge of us ? or have people making them selves milionaires while in charge of us

[stevepas]

Question is= Is it better to have ready made millionaires in charge of us ? or have people making them selves millionaires while in charge of us

Millionaires are old hat, they are common, look how many of them are in the house of commons, lords etc. Too many = common

Time for a state funded pensioner, they are well practiced in how to budget and make something out of nothing rather than make something into nothing !

I'd do it for £500 per wk, no expenses, no lobbygate, no favours, the only thing I would expect from the normal political backers is a bullet, because they ain't going to like what I would do