Author Topic: Striking Greeks  (Read 2558 times)

caminito

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2011, 03:19:43 PM »
None so blind as those who will not see  ::)

Carolyn

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2011, 03:22:47 PM »
None so blind as those who will not see  ::)

So true  :)

Angelo

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2011, 08:12:16 PM »
I propose Caminito for chancelor of the exchequer.

What say you ?

Dottie1943

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2011, 08:30:59 PM »
Seconded ;D ;D ;D
Breath in, Breath out then repeat only when necessary

caminito

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2011, 08:39:15 PM »
Thanks but no thanks  :-*
I'm to honest !

"Do all fairy tales begin with once upon a time...?...... "No. Some begin with 'If I am elected...'"  ;D

Angelo

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2011, 08:33:05 AM »
Oh yes that automaticaly dissqualifies you ( being Honest).
I'll have to remember that one. (" if I'm elected")

Oldtimer

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2011, 08:49:20 AM »
Beware of Greeks Bearing Placards?
If you cannot do someone a good turn never do them a bad one.

Papaumau

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2011, 12:56:03 PM »
Caminito said:
Quote
"Papa ,you must really open your eyes to what is going on !  The Euro is doomed !
More than three-quarters of Germans believe the euro will not survive the sovereign debt crisis in Greece, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung said on Sunday."

THAT...my friend is a matter of opinion !

Also, there are destroyers in every one of the states of the European Union and the ones who listen to them are usually the ones that subscribe to this desire.

When things go wrong in any extremely complex entity like the European Union we will always find disparate opinions surfacing from the ones who want to destroy rather than to build. It is already an amazing happening that so many different countries with different historical experiences and values have actually come together to form this wonderful institution.

What is happening now that will keep this powerful entity strong and vibrant is how "they" ( the leaders of this group of states that want to make it work ), are working extremely hard to fix these money and trade troubles so that this modern Europe can go from strength to strength.

I, for one, would love to see Britain being given a chance to properly get IN or OUT as then we could stop pussy-footing around and throwing spanners into works and finally either get right in and help to make it work or get right out and then see what happens to "Little Britain" afterwards.

 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 10:46:11 AM by Papaumau »
Regards....

Papaumau.



Hugh

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2011, 04:03:03 PM »
Agreement been made with the Greeks so they thought, but a spanner been thrown in the works. The people are going to have a vote on the agreement but the answer sure to be NO NO NO NO and the Greeks will break away from the Euro is the likely out come.
mg]    

Dottie1943

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2011, 04:04:51 PM »
Hugh

Don't tell me that they are going to take our money and do a runner, surely not!!! ;D
Breath in, Breath out then repeat only when necessary

Rita Postlethwaite

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2011, 04:18:25 PM »
You`d better believe it Dottie!! :o
Never look down on anyone, unless it is to offer your hand to help them up.

caminito

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2011, 04:25:03 PM »
Papa.
I will try and be as diplomatic as posible with my reply ! You are entitled to your opinion  ! , .though I think that you are in denial to the reality of events in  the EU and the eurozone in particular ! We debate not argue !
It does not help when you always use emotive words like destroyers , rabid , desparate , extremist , antis , destruction , dessimination etc etc , with and about anybody who does not agree with your point of view on the EU.

The euro zone is doomed to fail because the divide between the northern and southern countries is just too great,
"At the outset of the creation of the euro in 1999, it was expected that the southern eurozone economies would behave like those in the north; the Italians would behave like Germans. They didn’t,"  "Instead, northern Europe fell into subsidizing southern Europe’s excess consumption, that is, its current account deficits."

As the south's fiscal crisis deepens, the flow of goods from the north will stop altogether and southern Europe's standard of living will go down.

"The effect of the divergent cultures in the eurozone has been grossly underestimated,"  "The only way to have several currencies from divergent nations lumped together is if they are culturally close, such as Germany, the Netherlands and Austria. If they aren’t, it simply can’t continue to work."

The EU and Communism both sound great on paper BUT in reality they don't work ! As has been proven !

You said ....
 that now Merkel and Sarkozy and a few more have worked out a deal to save Greece, ( as I said they would have to ), even although Europe is not yet "out of the woods", ( I just love metaphores  Cool ), I honestly believe that it is now slowly on the mend.

What is actually happening ....
Greece’s astonishing decision to call a referendum – "a supreme act of democracy and of patriotism", in the words of premier George Papandreou – has more or less killed last week’s EU summit deal.
Unless the European Central Bank step in very soon and on a massive scale to shore up Italy, the game is up. We will have a spectacular smash-up.

You said ....
Once the European Union and with it, the EMU, is back to strength again we are going to want to be right at the heart of this machine and with the likes of the Tories and the UKIP "chucking spanners into the works" ( there's another one  Wink ), we are never going to finish up "right at the heart of" Europe, Where France and Germany are at the moment.

What is happening ...
Whitehall civil servants have started to work on plans to repatriate powers from the EU,





« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 04:27:48 PM by caminito »

Hugh

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2011, 04:50:06 PM »
Papa

Although I agree with most of what you say I don't agree we would be better off as a full member of the Euro in fact in my view a disaster.

A good percent of our wealth comes from the financial world based in London. Brussels would love to grab this for them selves.

If we had a referendum about joining the Euro I am pretty sure answer would be a resounding NO.

mg]    

Oldtimer

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2011, 05:46:50 PM »
Italy and Greece have a different life style to France & Germany.
That's why Zar is cozy with Merkel. Forgive the pun.
They are are afraid that GB will come in and play a dominate role?
But to do this we would need a new Government not  a referendum.
The Greek Government have ducked out of their responsibility .
If you cannot do someone a good turn never do them a bad one.

caminito

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Re: Striking Greeks
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2011, 06:07:43 PM »
Is this the logic and the plan  ???

If Greeks reject the 50% controlled default on the debts they owe to the banking sector,  - without a 50% haircut, and a further 130bn euro bailout, on top of 110bn, Greek debt spirals out of control and the country goes bust.

At this point, the value of the debt falls to maybe 10% of its face value and Greece has broken all the rules of euro membership.

The euro leaders will be faced with the option of a forced transfer of taxpayers' money to shore up the entire Greek economy with no surety, and no "local representatives" as currently planned. Or Greece leaves the euro.

Most political economists believe this has been the logic all along, and brave though it has been for Prime Minister George Papandreou to try and buy time to do a proper structural reform of Greece, the implosion of Spain and Italy has robbed him of that time.

Greeks - even those fiercely opposed to Pasok from the left and right - are resigned to the fact that the country faces years of painful restructuring. The real question at issue is a) under whose control and b) in whose interest?

Everybody can see that an external devaluation will be chaotic, painful and cause its own kind of social unrest, just as the attempted internal devaluation is doing.

But events are moving fast. Even as the Greek centre-left toys with the concept of repudiating "odious" debt, as per Latin America in the 1990s, the debt is being concentrated into the hands of other sovereigns - the European Central Bank (ECB), the International Monetary Fund (IMF), other governments…

The reason the markets are scared is not just because of the difference between 50% and 90% default,  would signal default across the whole range of debt, causing new turmoil for European states.

What caused Mr Papandreou's sudden move? Even some of the MPs closest to him had no idea it was going to happen.

A potential reason is capital flight. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the Greek elite are buying up property in London just as fast as they can find berths in Poole for their yachts. They are voting with their spinnakers, on the basis that the game is up. In any future Greece on offer, they will have to start paying taxes and they do not want to.

The Greek super-rich have mostly left and the business elite are emigrating en masse, so throw the dice.

But if Greece votes no - and goes for euro-exit - there are several plans in the process of being published that explain what you have to do. Close the banks for days, ration food and energy, institute strict capital controls - with most probably a few fast patrol boats at Glyfada harbour to check every departing yacht for cash and bonds.

Later, you get massive devaluation, with inflation; your non-sovereign debts become instantly doubled so you cannot pay them (i.e., the stock of Greek private debt to external lenders, for example, or, intra-corporate debts).

Finally, you get the chance to become competitive again. ( Argentina did this and now they are doing well)
However, despite this very, very unappealing prospect, you are at least in control of your own economy and you do not have foreign civil servants dictating what ministers can do.