Author Topic: The referendum on Europe  (Read 553 times)

stevepas

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2011, 04:24:32 PM »

Yes, it has a lot of flaws but instead of running and hiding from these problems we should be standing beside Sarkozy and Merkel and helping the union through their problems. After all, are the Tories not called the Conservative and Unionist Party ?


We don't need to stand by Sarkozy and Merkel they already are beside us with their hands deep inside our pockets along with the LIBLABCON.
I have the balls to face up to the reality as proven by the actions of the uk and eu governments.
They have proven beyond any shadow of doubt that they exceptionally fiscally irresponsible, exceptionally corrupt, exceptionally hypocritical, exceptionally dangerous.
This is not my point of view, it is a fact of life as proven by my links in previous posts.

Unionists? More dinosaurs, the union is extinct scotland has got its coat on and its leaving the union 'party' as is wales, NI, they already have their own laws re free elderly care since 2002 (scotland) free prescriptions (all bar England)etc., etc.


A lot of the Europhiles that are running around at the moment like the proverbial chickens with their heads stuck somewhere they never see the light of day are just not doing any serious thinking about Europe, they are instead just reacting with a supposedly protectionist instinct that is making them shake at the knees.

As The European Union is our greatest deficit generating partner in the world we should really be starting to help it in as many ways as we can if we do not want to get drawn down by these problems. ( Remember Cameron's recent appeal to the faithful about the "house next door that is on fire" ).

I am helping the EU in the best way, I'm trying to kill it off, it cannot be saved unless you want to indebt your great great grandchildren, your welcome, but I would like a choice.

The house next door is always on fire, what do you expect when you give a box of matches to arsonists.

Why are my efforts and sacrifices required to put the fire out when I can shoot the arsonist, and never have a fire again, thereby saving all neighbours not just the one next to us.


The wee hiccup that Greece is having at the moment IS going to get worse and once it is we are going to see a greater financial demand fromEurope it would be much better having it as a distant enemy rather than as a close enemy.

Once all of the panic and craziness is over I am sure that Europe will be sinking again and we better be sure that when it does that we got our mae wests

Apologies for edits.

We need Europe like a heroin addict needs another shot,
without that shot the addict goes off the rails.
In europe's case the non-addict is going to be bled dry financing the death of the addict.

The scale of Europe and our own governments treacherous deeds are waaaaaaay more than you can imagine. I've been looking into what I thought was a small hole only to find that we are on the edge of the event horizon. I've decided for safety sake to head in the opposite direction but my government wants me to share in this 'GREAT' experience.

Even great europhiles are coming out of their deep sleep, 'Max Hastings I was wrong'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2036704/EU-disaster-blighting-lives.html

caminito

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2011, 04:50:49 PM »
The wee hiccup that Greece is having at the moment  ???   :o
Bl**dy heck ...they are bankrupt , broke , potless

The Euro luvvies arguments just do not stack up . They should get their heads out of the sand and face the facts !

Hitched to a ‘Falling Star’?
 It is foolish to link our fortunes to a region of the world with a poor record of economic growth and whose share of both world markets and
GDP is destined to fall. Even the European Commission takes a gloomy view of the EU’s prospects.

The European Union is a political project. It is not about economics, though its economic consequences are profound.
British participation in le projet européen, and whether that participation should continue, and in what form, is thus primarily a question of politics. But the politics cannot be assessed without an understanding of the economics
The balance of the costs and benefits of UK membership of the EU is unequivocally negative. The net costs are substantial

The CAP, is a ‘manifest absurdity’.The  Chancellor calls it a ‘scandal’. There can be little doubt that the CAP has inflicted serious damage on British agriculture, the British economy and, not least, on Third World countries. For over 30 years the whole of British government policy has been directed to ‘integration’ into and ‘convergence’ with the rest of the EU. In the economic field, the UK has enacted swathes of directives and regulations that impact heavily not just on the ten per cent or less of the economy actually involved in exporting to the EU, but also on the 90 per cent that is not. Ever since 1973, as a member of the EU customs union, the UK’s commercial policy has been that of the EC/EU, not one that the UK would have necessarily chosen had it been free to do so.

The premise is that if the UK had been outside the EU, and been able to deepen its affinities with the rest of the world its economy would have grown . In other words, at the UK’s present level of GDP , its economy would have been £60 billion bigger than it actually was.
That is just one estimate of the opportunity cost to the UK of being in the EU for a ten-year historical period.

If the UK withdrew from the EU it would be in the interests of both parties—especially the remaining EU—to negotiate arrangements
providing for bilateral trade as free as, or more free than, they enjoy at present.

Though all EU countries have ageing populations the problem is especially severe on the Continent, where, with the exception of the
Netherlands, pay-as-you-go (i.e. non-funded) pension systems are the rule, and demography is particularly worrying. As pension
crises deepen, pressure will grow for EU-wide ‘solidarity’—in practice, for UK taxpayers to help fund bankrupt continental systems.
The UK and Germany already massively subsidise the rest of the EU, especially continental farmers, through the mechanism of the
EU Budget. So asking those countries to pay more would not exactly come as a surprise.

Growth in GDP, market size and equity returns will tend to occur outside Europe
• The EU Single Market will be a shrinking market, unattractive to investors
• The tax base will shrink; tax rates and debt will have to increase
• Shrinking and ageing populations mean more demand for healthcare and pensions with fewer people to provide them
• Most EU countries will see falling demand for houses, schools, factories and shops, with falling asset values and investment.
This will affect the financial and equity markets on which pension provision depends

Ninety Per Cent or More of the British Economy Is Not Involved in Exports to the EU

caminito

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2011, 05:34:16 PM »

Dottie1943

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2011, 06:15:43 PM »
Nigel Farage

Wow I love you, he spoke so much sense and the faces of the men he was directing his speech to their faces were a picture and I fear he may have made many enemy's if that is the case he should come back to the uk and run for parliament.

Breath in, Breath out then repeat only when necessary

stevepas

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2011, 11:16:50 PM »
Anyone heard of Marta Andreason?

Some may have heard of her being a euro sceptic.

But long long ago in a far away world she was pro european.

She was excited when she was asked to join the Euro project.

Her mission to audit their books, thats where it all went wrong.

She found very loose accounting practices, money going out with no control for example, being a 'normal person' she raised this issue with her superiors and they didn't care.

Her next port of call was to become a UKIP MEP, funny old world.

From pro-euro to very anti-euro it can be done so easily.

Her story here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSERV7yRlOo
It is a real eye-opener!!! Another example of lifting a carpet 'expecting' to find a beetle, only to find dry rot, wet rot, woodworm and any other nasty.

If you like Farage you'll also like this one from Godfrey Bloom, absolute broadside (UKIP again.) This is a must to watch it will put a smile on your face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwRcWzVPji8&feature=related

I still haven't warmed up yet, I'm trying to keep the heating off.  ;D
If I save a 100 pound this year on my heating bill it will mean the eu and uk gov can print multiple billions very kindly on my behalf, shame that I will only receive the downside of their efforts.

very interesting watching the faces receiving a  barage from farage and co, they often have their heads down or turned away, says it all.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 11:19:01 PM by stevepas »

stevepas

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2011, 11:52:50 PM »
Another interesting element about the EU.

'The Rotterdam effect'

Our export figures were/are effected by this phenomenon, trade passing through rotterdam on the way to the rest of world apparently effected our export figures with Europe. (Some reckon it may have enhanced our figures to the EU)

How it effected figures I'm not sure but I think if any bureaucrat was anywhere near it would be made to look 'good'.

for example see
tory unemployment figures from the 90's, that labour said were fiddled, funny how when they got in it never went up to the true figure.

for example see
also mrsa figures, someone who died from mrsa would end up having pneumonia so that would be put down as cause of death instead of mrsa, that helped avoid flak for the hospital concerned.

I once knew of two hospitals arguing over who was responsible for the death of a patient from mrsa.

for example see
king's forecasts for inflation has he got it right yet?
He thinks that inflation will come down, particularly funny when he's put more debt (money) into the economy which has a tendency to create inflation kinda like what's happening in the real world.

Talking of inflation thats another set of fiddled figures.

How about national debt, PFI debt not on the uk plc balance sheet.
PFI does that stand for 'pay 3.3 billion for a 400 million pound hospital?'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvDRCkKXfoo

ooooh thats reminded my of those aircraftless aircraft carriers, all right I'll stop now.

I've still not warmed up yet. ;D

caminito

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2011, 08:06:25 AM »
Distortions to Recorded Trade Flows:
Trade in Goods and Services
The Rotterdam-Antwerp Effect
Europe’s two biggest ports are Rotterdam, in the Netherlands, and Antwerp, in Belgium. Around two-thirds of British exports of goods
and services recorded in the trade statistics1 as going to and from those countries appear to be transiting via Rotterdam and Antwerp
on their way to or from somewhere else, some to end-destinations within other EU countries, the remainder to and from end-destinations
outside the EU. Thus, recorded trade with the Netherlands and Belgium, (and with the EU of which they are members) appears to
be overstated

stevepas

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2011, 10:43:52 AM »
thanks for confirmation caminito

caminito

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2011, 12:11:55 PM »


Markets slide as confidence in the long-term effectiveness of the eurozone bail-out wanes.

Carolyn

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2011, 03:21:28 PM »
I am pleased the MP's have a referendum, just a shame that we all are not allowed one.

caminito

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Re: The referendum on Europe
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2011, 11:03:47 PM »
Banks were asked by European leaders to accept a 50% write-off of the debts owed to them by Greece.

However, the Greek Prime Minister, George Papandreou, announced after share trading had closed in Europe that he would put this agreement to a referendum, raising a question mark over whether it will go ahead.

Everbody gets a referendum except us  ???

Responding to the riots that followed last week’s proposal, as well as dissent from within his own Socialist party, Prime Minister George Papandreou said: “The command of the Greek people will bind us. Do they want to adopt the new deal, or reject it? If the Greek people do not want it, it will not be adopted.”

Staging a referendum, reportedly to be held in January, threatens to throw the eurozone further into crisis as the majority of Greeks object to the bail-out, according to a survey published last week.

If Greece were to reject the plan, which requires deep spending cuts, it would risk a full-scale default and possible ejection from the euro. The country could even run out of money to pay civil servants or state pensions if the troika decided to pull the plug.

The decision by the embattled Mr Papandreou has the potential to be a major blow to efforts by German chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy to tame a crisis that most economists expect to push Europe back into recession in coming months.

The move is also likely to rattle investors whose initial euphoric reaction to last week’s agreement in Brussels has been replaced with a scepticism over whether European governments, including those of Greece and Italy, will be able to drive through the tough austerity measures demanded by the agreements.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 11:13:06 PM by caminito »