cabal

[caminito]

Writing in The Telegraph, Sir Gus O’Donnell asks whether the Union can survive increasing pressure for Scottish independence.

Sir Gus, who is the head of more than 440,000 civil servants in England, Scotland and Wales, says the future of the Union is one of several “enormous challenges” facing the political establishment in the coming years.

Mr Salmond said: "I have always regarded Sir Gus O'Donnell as a model civil servant, who has been extremely fair in recognising and respecting the democratic mandate of the Scottish Government.

"Sir Gus is right to recognise the importance of the constitutional issue, and the SNP Government are up for the challenge

The admission from such a senior non-political figure that the break-up of Britain is now a real possibility is likely to push the issue up the political agenda.

So it's OK to have a referendum to vote for Scotland to  exit the "Union" but to ask for a referendum to vote on the UK to leave the "European Union " (which we never voted for) is to be labeled a "destroyer" , " little englander" & a Cabal  

[Papaumau]

Yes Caminito..."badges" or names attached to principles are often open to skewed interpretation ( as the thinking of the viewer dictates ), and one person's "cabal" ( a particular favourite of mine BTW ), might be another person's "club".

Nationalism is a VERY complex and passion-ridden subject that seldom does not raise tempers and while to one it might mean freedom from repression, to another it might mean separatism.

As you say, we, ( the Brits ), were never asked if we wanted to be any part of a centralised Greater Europe and just like the cobbled-together Treaty of Union made up by the barons and landowners of old forced partnership amongst the disparate members of the loosely held sub-nations of Britain, we, up here in Scotland, feel that we were never asked if we wanted to be part of this particular "cabal".

I guess that the only way to settle this ongoing feud is to give these peoples their referendum so that afterwards - rightly or wrongly - the people will have been given the ability to speak in a democratic way as to what they want for their future.   

[Oldtimer]

I think that all people in Great Britain have had their disilusions,arguments for and against the Union.
But because of the length of time our nations have been together I think we have set an example to the rest of the world on how to co exist.
It is a shame that for what ever reason some elements want to split.
Surely it is time for all of us even the dissatisfied should be able to work together to improve our lot and make sure that people from any area of the UK are treated fairly and not give predominence to the South East of England.
I must apologies for my lizdexits my spell check has ceased to function.

[Dottie1943]

Use the spell checker on the forum at the bottom of the page you are posting on near the post button Oldtimer

[Oldtimer]

Tried that without result I might have left a programme running bad habit?

[Dottie1943]

tut tut naughty you!!!

[Angelo]

Nationalism is a very dangerous state. 
We, they , Us, the nearer we can get to US the better.
Hence Europe is nearer Us than British!
Why is this important, well  we allows prople to dominate. The Likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc. because we are better than Them! They are inferiour. Product war, pestilance famine.

Us are together, equal,sharing,resposible for each other.
Get It ?

[Papaumau]

I think that all people in Great Britain have had their disilusions,arguments for and against the Union.
But because of the length of time our nations have been together I think we have set an example to the rest of the world on how to co exist.
It is a shame that for what ever reason some elements want to split.
Surely it is time for all of us even the dissatisfied should be able to work together to improve our lot and make sure that people from any area of the UK are treated fairly and not give predominence to the South East of England.
I must apologies for my lizdexits my spell check has ceased to function.

Yes some Unionists see it as a "split" but in fact there is no reason why we cannot still be part of a larger union and STILL keep our sovereignty as individual nations.

When our political and social and civil will is damaged or usurped by a central government that do not really see us or our needs there are times when such freedoms are the best way forward.

Looking at Europe or Britain I often compare the states within these states with the real United States of America and see no reason why each country, ( state ), within the larger boundary cannot have the same or similar relationship as is successfully shown there.

Done right there is no reason why each individual state in Britain cannot become a full and sovereign partner with all of the individual states in Europe so that eventually the greater whole could be a fully democratic group of states in a Federal United States of Europe.

All it is going to need is some vision and the desire to come together in that kind of an alliance.   

[GADZY]

Well; said PAPA
I am a Scot and i love my country, but i also love the UK and that includes ENGLAND
and everything that goes with it. but i still feel we should be able to manage our own house.

[caminito]

I am a proud Englishman but my ancestors were from scotland .
I can wear the tartan if I want too !  I have no problem with Scotland leaving the union.

As Salmond would like an independent Scotland within the EU , I hope that the Scottish independent referendum is held first and then the referendum for England to exit the EU.
That way the scots do not influence the EU exit vote which I think most english would prefer. Fed up with the West lothian problem anyway !
Everybody gets what they want ....hopefully

[GADZY]

Caminito
Glad you can wear the tartan When you wish Mate, Its up to you But me up here in Scotland during the cauld weather i prefer to wear two pair of long Johns
and a big woolly Jumper.

[caminito]

That's why I am englishman on the south coast . To bl**dy cold ,wet and windy to be a scotsman in a kilt in the highlands.
Probably why my ancestors moved south 
 

[GADZY]

Caminito
I can well understand that having spent some time myself in Pompey, Gosport and Marchwood Nice Area's.

[Papaumau]

That's why I am englishman on the south coast . To bl**dy cold ,wet and windy to be a scotsman in a kilt in the highlands.
Probably why my ancestors moved south 
 

The thing is Caminito that the kilt is in fact a VERY warm piece of clothing to wear and Highlanders over the years will support that fact.

Here I am in my Highland day-wear dress:


The kilt is made of my mother's tartan: the Graham of Menteith !

[Angelo]

Papa, that's SCARY ! But I know what your'e up to, trying to pull the Lassies Again ?