Author Topic: Scotland referendum  (Read 991 times)

caminito

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Scotland referendum
« on: January 09, 2012, 10:39:20 AM »
The cabinet is set to discuss proposals later to give the Scottish government the legal power to hold a binding referendum on independence.

It is understood Downing Street may set a time limit for the vote, possibly to take place within the next 18 months.

Any vote would be between leaving or staying in the UK and there would be no option for greater devolved powers.

Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon accused Westminster of "trying to interfere in Scottish democracy".

The Scottish government says it should decide the referendum timing and form.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16463961

Maisie

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 11:22:22 AM »
Bit of a hot potato in my neck of the woods as I have a Scottish daughter-in-law and my son lives in Aberdeenshire. He works in the oil industry, so I am well aware that Aberdeen is currently very prosperous. It seems to me that the Scots may be a bit short-sighted on the issue of independence. When the oil runs out how are they proposing to raise sufficient tax revenues to meet the needs of the population?


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Maisie

xetog

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 05:51:59 PM »
Strange!  I expected a lot more activity over this post when I first saw it this morning.  I did write something, but upon re-reading decided that it was too partisan, so I scrapped it and have been out all the rest of the day.  My surprise I suppose, is based upon the assumption by SNP that the Union only concerns Scotland.  There are four nations in the UK and the impact upon the remainder of us would be quite fundamental, yet the Scots appear to think that we should simply stand by and allow them to decide upon the future of the nation.  I happen to think that the SNP's demands would be more likely to be fulfilled if the referendum were expanded to include the rest of the UK as many feel keenly the injustice imposed by the historically unrepresentative number of Scottish MP's in the UK Government and in particular the so called West Lothian Question.  I can't really understand David Camerons reluctance to allow this to proceed as the Labour Party in the UK would to all intents and purposes be finished of only their seats in the 3 remaining nations were counted.  The Scots already have a massive advantage over the English in that they can decide independently upon a huge number of issues.  There are many English who crave the same treatment.
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Dottie1943

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 09:03:25 PM »
I have spoken to several Scottish friends who live and work there and all have said they don't want to go on their own because they can see major problems once the oil runs out, they are in good jobs unconnected to the oil industry and say that they personally can see major problems with unemployment at an unprecedented limit.

Personally, I think they would not be doing anybody any favours them and us and the rest of the UK remember the old saying united we stand divided we fall.
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GrannyMac

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 09:03:55 AM »
I'm a Scot, married to an Englishman who moved north as a child.  We've lived for over 40 years in England, and have one child born north of the border, and one here.  My English husband's siblings all stayed in Scotland, and their kids all consider themselves as Scottish.

I can see both sides.  I remember the resentment that many Scots felt about England making their decisions for them.  Nowadays there is resentment here because of the extra money (per capita) given to Scotland, and the way they use it, ie  no student fees, and free care for the elderly, so people don't have to sell their homes to pay for what is in effect, healthcare.   I find it fairly unacceptable that in one part of the UK these things can be affordable, but not in others.   We joke with our kids that when we get really old (if we do  ::))  we'll head north so we can leave them the house!

In reality, I believe there are greater differences between the financially robust Home Counties/London and the rest of England, than between England and Scotland.  The north of England, just like Scotland, has lost most of it manufacturing and heavy industry.  It relies heavily on the public sector for employment, just like Scotland.   

People also need to remember that England won't see another Labour government anytime soon if Scotland leaves the UK.   :o

GADZY

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 10:53:27 AM »
I would not say a breakup was likely. It is possible. It is certainly not imminent. I feel that Scots want to be independent with a small 'i' and that is why so many have voted for the SNP. The path that Scotland is taking as a result is likely to lead to increasing divergence between Scotland and England on many issues. It may be that quite a high degree of difference is possible within a federal union. Time will tell. I welcome the increased sense of independence that devolution is bringing. The English government has never devoted much time or thought to the Scottish interest. We have to hope that bringing our own energies to bear on our problems will bring progress.
 If that road does lead eventually to full independence then I would only welcome it if it were achieved in a spirit of goodwill and cooperation with our neighbours. I think I would prefer to see a Scotland invigorated and energised with more clout at home and abroad but remaining in the union.
"O happy hills! O pleasant shades! O fields beloved in vain! Where once my careless childhood roved. A stranger yet to pain

Papaumau

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 12:48:55 PM »
Being a Scot and a SNP supporter in my country I have tried to resist joining in this contentious subject, but as most of you already know, "contentious" to me is just like nectar to a bee.....irresistible. :)

I have to agree that I think that Cameron is being a bit of a troublemaker as he attempts to circumvent the settled will of the Scottish people by dictating to us what we might or might not vote for.

Our glorious leader Alex Salmond has already said that he will initiate a referendum on this subject "mid-way" through this term of government and as that was said BEFORE the last election and the people of Scotland brought him back with a large majority he rightly feels that his plans for "devolution-max" or for "full independence" were the settled will of his people.

Cameron is just being mischievous when he tries to stir this particular pot as he knows that it does not matter what Scotland votes for as any granting of "devo-max" or "full independent" would have to be ratified in Westminster. 
Regards....

Papaumau.



GADZY

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 04:41:35 PM »
I think it's abhorrent that David Cameron can pledge to have a "Respect Agenda" with the Scottish Government one minute - then attempt to undermine them the next. The Unionists opposed any referendum on independence - citing it would be a waste of money. Now - they want to set the terms and conditions of holding that referendum in the midst of a probable double-dip recession. This is political gerrymandering at it's worst and as a Scot I feel incensed that this man, who was categorically rejected by Scotland at the last General Election - feels he has the right to interfere in this important, democratic process.

 :o :o :o
"O happy hills! O pleasant shades! O fields beloved in vain! Where once my careless childhood roved. A stranger yet to pain

Papaumau

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 01:01:03 PM »
The thing is Gadzy, that every time Cameron and/or anyone else from South of the border try to dictate to the Scottish people about anything all they will be doing is driving more and more undecided Scots into the arms of the SNP.

Whatever one might think of Alex Salmond, it cannot be denied that he is a great leader, a great statesman, and a very shrewd individual, and if Cameron or Clegg or even Ed Miliband attempt to bully him into anything they will come out worse-off after the dust settles.
Regards....

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Dottie1943

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 05:21:56 PM »
Whatever one might think of Alex Salmond, it cannot be denied that he is a great leader, a great statesman, and a very shrewd individual, and if Cameron or Clegg or even Ed Miliband attempt to bully him into anything they will come out worse-off after the dust settles.

I am sorry to have to say that you might be right on this score, and I do agree he is a good leader, I would not say Great ;D, I wish we had some  like him in the conservative party so we could dump Clegg and his mates.
Breath in, Breath out then repeat only when necessary

Oldtimer

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 10:12:20 AM »
Oh Ye tak the High Road and I'll take the low road and I'll be in Scotland afore ye!!
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Dottie1943

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 12:31:51 PM »
Oldtimer, what are you on today apart from the Lemsip???? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Breath in, Breath out then repeat only when necessary

Papaumau

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 12:33:08 PM »
I am sorry to have to say that you might be right on this score, and I do agree he is a good leader, I would not say Great ;D , I wish we had some  like him in the conservative party so we could dump Clegg and his mates.


Yes Dottie, many politically-minded people would like to have Alex Salmond as their party leader. In fact as I am a bit of a lefty - as you already know - and also an SNP supporter in Scotland I too would like to see Salmond as the leader of the latest manifestation of the UK Labour party. Sadly our Ed does not have half of the charisma of Blair or Salmond.


Oh an BTW...I really like the clean looks of the new format of the site !  8)
Regards....

Papaumau.



Dottie1943

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 12:38:34 PM »
Nice isnt it ;D
Breath in, Breath out then repeat only when necessary

granny bee

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Re: Scotland referendum
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 09:28:14 AM »
Thought my eyesight had improved! ;D ;D ;D