Barnett Formula

[caminito]

What a can of worms has been opened.  I fear that the arguments between England and Scotland will increase this year.
Salmond seeme unsure what currency an independent Scotland would use.
Can't have his cake and eat it by staying with sterling and as the Euro has major problems doesn't seem to what to use that 
He is forgetting that the English will start to get annoyed with him and his party making all the demands and  start making their own !

From an article in the Telegraph.... 

The MPs, who represent English constituencies, have called for reform of the Barnett Formula, which sets public spending in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The controversial device is named after Lord Barnett, the Labour Treasury minister who thought it up in the 1970s.

It allocates spending according to population size rather than the amount each country actually needs.

Critics say this gives Scotland an unfair share of government spending and even Lord Barnett has called for it to be replaced.

According to research at Stirling University, England loses around £4.5  billion of public spending every year because the money is handed to Scotland instead.

Nationalists claim that Scotland more than pays its way through tax revenues raised on North Sea oil.

Treasury figures last year showed that the gap in annual government spending between Scotland and England had risen to a record £1,600 per person. That gap has almost doubled in the last 15 years.

Gordon Henderson, the MP for Sittingbourne and Sheppey, said uneven public spending was fuelling English resentment at Scotland and undermining the Union the Conservatives are committed to preserving.

“There is increasing resentment within England about this – there is a feeling that we are treated less favourably,” he added.

“The Barnett Formula is well out of date and needs to be scrapped entirely. If we are a United Kingdom – and I hope we remain so – then we should all receive the same level of support from the Government

[GADZY]

As a Scot I'd be happy to get rid of Barnett in exchange for total control of our economic policies. Besides advantages from good economic management it would also make MSPs far more accountable for their spending if they had to manage the negative effect of taxes on their constituency support. While Brown ranted about so many consecutive quarters of economic growth the Scottish economy went into recession at least 3 times. Also having strong Welsh, Scottish and N. Irish economies would ease the pressures on the South East & London from people having to move there for job opportunities and good wages. It would also provide a buffer against turbulence when the City hiccups every few years.

One other consideration for the future is that Trident must never be considered a part of the money Scotland benefits from and must be on the books in Westminster. If Scotland is to be economically burdened with the nations nuclear deterrent then there are more than enough Scots who will support kicking Trident out of Scotland.

[caminito]

Al;ex Salmond assumes he will keep 95% of the North Sea oil revenue (although according to the report this will be substantially reduced because of our ownership and initial investments) but that he will already owe £140 Billion as his percentage of the National debt and the bail out of the RBS

The Royal commission who will investigate and recommend the terms for independence will look at National Debt, North Sea Oil, British Armed Forces, Scotlands Currency, the future of Scotland bases nuclear Submarines and whether they could keep their seat on the UN Security Council

The National Debt is estimated to be around £1.4 trillion by 2014 at around 10% of the UK's total Scotland's allocation of public spending is much higher than it's share of the population and it's share of the NAtional Debt would be calculated in this way i.e. 10% of £1.4 trillion = £140 Billion

It is also recommended that Scotland should be made to take back its toxic assets of £187 billion currently held by the Treasury

Mr Salmond want a third option in the referrendum 'devolution maximum' which means he gets all the benefits of being a member of the UK keeping the £10 billion a year subsidy it enjoys while not paying for anything else including paying for its own protection and keeping everything else for himself

What Mr Salmond also fails to grasp is that his procrastination at holding the referendum is damaging Scotlands ability to attract business and investment and in fact companies are planning to move south of the border in order not to be saddled wit the inevitable higher taxes that full independence would bring to pay for the above debt.

The Barnet Formula should be scrapped now and no Scottish (or Welsh) MP should get to vote on purely English issues

[GADZY]

Well Caminito thats me told off. 

[caminito]

Just saying that Alex Salmond is trying to tell the Scots that independence will be a cakewalk.
If a referendum vote is a Yes vote then "the English " can/could make it very difficult and very expensive for the SNP.
Why should the English hand it on a plate to him.

[Angelo]

Hey wait a minit guys, we are all in this together, LOL.
Didn't all our parents all sides of the borders fight for this country in WW1 & WW 2.
So what is all this about making this lot pay and making life difficult for that lot ?
At the end of the day the greater problem is how sucessive goverments of both sides misstreat all of us. Unequality, lack of care. Lets not fight between ourselves whan the greater danger looms. Could be that we are all in the CACA soon, the way things are going and well need al the friends we can get !!

[GADZY]

Angelo
Your 100% right mate on all points, and we do need all the friends we can get lol.

[BigAl]

 Friends are fine but true comrades at arms could be what we're needing. But if the vast majority of Scots don’t back our long standing partnership up to the hilt, then we must devoice. If one partners heart is not fully into the relationship it can only lead to a lot of resentment on both sides, of cause like many devoices it could get messy. 

[GADZY]

"The most beautiful discovery true friends make is that they can grow separately without growing apart.  "

[BigAl]

"The most beautiful discovery true friends make is that they can grow separately without growing apart.  "

 Sorry but if we were just friends that may be true but we are the United Kingdom.  Who will be next Wales, Northern Ireland !!
Perhaps “United we stand - Divided we fall” would be a more appropriate proverb.
 
The problem is, even if Scotland decides to stay part of the UK the rot as now set in and the unrest with some people will continue. On the other hand if they decide to separate many people who are not in agreement may well become disgruntled and start a backlash or simply start moving south leaving Scotland with a diminishing talent pool. Either way I see friendships being somewhat of a struggle even within Scotland.
 

[Angelo]

Bi Al: You make this sound like it is a new thing, well sorry but even 60 years ago I can remember on my annual visit to Scotland that the independence debate was in full swing. It was probably so for a good many years before that too. A good percentage of Scots are already in the south & just about every other country in the world.There are probablky more Scots abroad then in Scotland. Just look at the population figures.

[BigAl]

 Anjelo
I accept your point and am sure you’re right. Perhaps it’s just me that doesn’t like change or rocking of the boat but give me peace and quiet, Francis Rossi and Rick Parfitt or should that be the status quo.

[Papaumau]

My tuppenceworth.....

There has been a lot of very argumentative yet important points raised by the plans for the SNP to try to go for independence, not less including the results of the now-outdated Barnett Formula.

The Calman Commission on the details of devolution to Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland is working hard to try to fix many of the unfairnesses seen in past devolution measures, including the Barnett Formula.

The carve-up that was the Treaty of Union that meant that all of the sovereign states of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would come under one government and one King has ensures that the English government situated in Westminster has had all of the control of what monies go to all of these nations after they have ALL paid their UK taxes to the central London treasury.

I now believe that all of these nations - as "nations" they are - are no longer happy to just take the crumbs that are dished out - or not - by this central government and as the days go by they are starting to look for much more and more autonomy. Even the North of England - only seen as a region at the moment - is now looking for greater devolution of rule and it's finances.

Maybe the time is coming when the UK will eventually become a group of independent states as part of a United States of Britain where each will be allowed the self-determination that they want and deserve.

If this was to happen there might not be an argument that each of these sovereign states will have broken away from the parent entity if they are all still part of the same federation. 

[Angelo]

Papa, would that be a sort of Federal Monachy ? can you see the British Establishment going for that ?

[avalonmpk2]

We could just have a federal republic.