The Recession and Pensioners.

[John worker]

After the 1st World War the politicians promised a land fit for heroes. October  29th 1929 destroyed that promise. Black Tuesday when the U.S.A. stock market crashed and gave birth to the depression which was worldwide and lasted nearly 10 years. In Britain unemployment doubled. The governments solution and does sound rather familiar was to cut public sector spending, wages, and benefit payments which lead to the hunger marches such as Jarrow. There is also a  view that the depression was the trigger that activated World War 2.

There is a touch of deja vu given the political response of our politicians today.

John Worker.

[Papaumau]

Yes, sadly true John !

Because of human nature and the inhumanity of man toward man selfishness always reigns.

That is why the poor and the weak have to have champions to fight in their corner.

The rich and the powerful will always ensure that things stay that way and it is only when the people get together in solidarity that this gulf is breached.

Don't get me wrong here as I am not advocating Communism or anything like it as even here human nature showed up the massive flaws in the communist regimes.

Being what my grandad would have called "old labour" and taking these values towards what is now known as "New-Socialism" I see a new world forming where the rich and powerful are MADE to treat the poor and weak fairly and while they do it they are allowed and even encouraged to use their capitalism to create wealth for all.

THAT is my vision for the future and I would hope that if human nature can be  tempered and re-moulded there is no reason why we cannot eventually evolve into what could be called Homo Superior rather than just the flawed Homo Sapiens.

This...might take a while though !

[Ivanhoe]

Britain's pensioners have been in their own recession since the 80's when the Thatcher government broke the state pensions link with national average wages.

It is a national scandal that he staste penion is now worth jut 16 per cent of national average wages, with millions of elderly people struggling in hardship though no fault of their own.

If this had happened in Europe thee would have been riots on the streets in support of the elderly, but not in Britain because we are an apathetic nation .

[Papaumau]

There is no doubt that the link that was cut between the level of the state pension and the levels of the average wages was the cruellest action that was ever taken against the elderly of Britain. What is worse is that the New-Labour government that followed the Thatcher years did NOTHING to re-connect this pension value.

As you say Ivanhoe....because of this the actual  level of income via the state pension has been eroded away until it is now one of the poorest state pensions in Europe.

This was an unforgivable act and one that will go down in the annals of infamy forever !

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, please go to this link and leave a comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywYPBSZc16I

Ivanhoe.

[Papaumau]

Been there, done that !

Strangely the guy in the video actually looks a bit like me !

That aside, I have to agree with all that he said.

This and past governments have simply got their prorities wrong as far as this subject is concerned as - just as that guy said - we, on the receiving end - have already paid for our state pensions in the service that we have given the state, the taxes that we have paid in our lifetimes and the way that we have contributed to the sustaining of the British economy over many years.

We should NOT be the last thing to think about when state money is being spent, we should be THE FIRST in the queue for this payout !

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, I could not agree more that pensioners should be first in the queue.

[radar41]

Been there, done that !

Strangely the guy in the video actually looks a bit like me !

That aside, I have to agree with all that he said.

This and past governments have simply got their prorities wrong as far as this subject is concerned as - just as that guy said - we, on the recieving end - have already paid for our state pensions in the service that we have given the state, the taxes that we have paid in our lifetimes and the way that we have contributed to the sustaining of the British economy over many years.

We should NOT be the last thing to think about when state money is being spent, we should be THE FIRST in the queue for this payout !

The guy in the video is ivanhoe.

[radar41]

Papaumau, please go to this link and leave a comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywYPBSZc16I

Ivanhoe.

Millions of pensioners going without food. !

You've been promulgating this lie for at least three years on various forums, yet you can provide no evidence whatsoever.

[Papaumau]

Hi Radar41...it's nice to see that you take an interest in how I think and what I say !

I think in the final outcome we have to consider if the wealth of our nation - which is created by ALL of us - is being shared around correctly at the final shareout.

When I talk about the poverty of our elderly citizens I talk about it in the context of living in a VERY rich country and not comparing it with the kind of poverty we find in certain African states, for example.

When evaluating any amount of poverty we have to compare like for like and in Britain and in Europe we are right at the bottom of the pile when pension value is being calculated.

This is an undeniable fact !

This is patently wrong and cannot be argued against using any kind of rich-man's analogy.

Maybe you are not old enough yet to worry about that choice of whether to spend your pension on food or clothing or rent, but I can tell you that for many in this country at the moment the people who are making these choices must decide which ones not to pay for if they are to survive and subsist.

Another FACT is the one about the hundreds if not thousands of elderly people in Britain who make the enforced choice every winter not to buy heating for their homes and thereby dying of hypothermia.

This is a shameful disgrace in a country that has a GDP of 2.1 TRILLION pounds !

[Ivanhoe]

start, A brilliant posting, it is very sad that there are those of all ages in this country that have no idea how other people live, and this is because their mindset is on "self", social awareness is not an option..

What is equally sad is that our younger generations are heading for the exact same misery in their old age, because the state pension is being phased out in favour of the private pension.

If this was happening in Europe there would be riots on the streets, but in Britain we just have no political awareness or culture whatsover.

In Britain we start need political parties running our country, we just let the people get on with it, until something happens to them, and that's when people start "thinking", but then it will be too late.

[radar41]

Hi Radar41...it's nice to see that you take an interest in how I think and what I say !

I think in the final outcome we have to consider if the wealth of our nation - which is created by ALL of us - is being shared around correctly at the final shareout.

When I talk about the poverty of our elderly citizens I talk about it in the context of living in a VERY rich country and not comparing it with the kind of poverty we find in certain African states, for example.

When evaluating any amount of poverty we have to compare like for like and in Britain and in Europe we are right at the bottom of the pile when pension value is being calculated.

This is an undeniable fact !

This is patently wrong and cannot be argued against using any kind of rich-man's analogy.

Maybe you are not old enough yet to worry about that choice of whether to spend your pension on food or clothing or rent, but I can tell you that for many in this country at the moment the people who are making these choices must decide which ones not to pay for if they are to survive and subsist.

Another FACT is the one about the hundreds if not thousands of elderly people in Britain who make the enforced choice every winter not to buy heating for their homes and thereby dying of hypothermia.

This is a shameful disgrace in a country that has a GDP of 2.1 TRILLION pounds !

Merely stating somethin as fact does not make it true. You have fallen into the same trap as ivanhoe. publish the inquest results of just a few of these unfortunate pensioners and you might get some interest from me. All pensioner homes currently receive £250 winter fuel allowance aswell as other benefits. That is a perfectly adequate sum to heat a home during the winter months.

[Ivanhoe]

Im am neither ignorant or arrogant, ive merely stated facts.

[Ivanhoe]

No pensioner should have to "claim" anything, a decent uprate in the basic state pension would stop all pensioners having to apply for the dreadfull means tested handout, methinks the poor law should be returned, coupled with the workhouse ?

We dont see our MP's "claiming what they are entitled too, to top up their £64,000 a year salaries, no, they are allowed it.

So why arent our elderly people "allowed" a decent state pension they can live on without having to "apply", it's an absolute disgrace that this generation should have to "apply".

[Papaumau]

Radar 41 said:
Merely stating somethin as fact does not make it true. You have fallen into the same trap as ivanhoe. publish the inquest results of just a few of these unfortunate pensioners and you might get some interest from me. All pensioner homes currently receive £250 winter fuel allowance aswell as other benefits. That is a perfectly adequate sum to heat a home during the winter months

This fact IS true and it can be easily supported by the figures we read in the newspapers and in the government's own website. ( I will not encourage your laziness by doing it for you ).

The fact,  ( yes, another one ),  that the "new-Labour" government have just been fiddling around at the edges of pensioners needs by chucking a few bones in their direction instead of solving the problem directly by removing pensioners from all tax and/or ensuring that the basic state pension is worth receiving, shows that they do NOT really want to pay for any decent standard of living for the people that have already done their bit for this country.

As I have said before....If they REALLY wanted to solve the problem of pensioner poverty all they need to do is to put us FIRST and before any other pet projects are paid for.

This is not a lot to ask for !