Author Topic: How much ?  (Read 850 times)

Ivanhoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
How much ?
« on: December 01, 2009, 11:48:45 PM »
Britain's State pension is the lowest in Europe.  How much do you think the State pension should be ?

John

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
Re: How much ?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2009, 12:00:14 AM »
How much do you think it should be?

Ivanhoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
Re: How much ?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2009, 10:49:08 AM »
These are the facts,-

The government's means test system is costing over twn times more that it would cost to uprate state pensions in line with national average wages.

The government have a national insurance "surplus" of around £50 billion and rising, but they are using this money for different things.

Along with a State pension increase to at least £250 - £300 a week for single pensioneres with a relevant increase for couples, there should also be the abolition of te council tax because it is not based on ability to pay.

Papaumau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1574
Re: How much ?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2009, 11:03:53 AM »
The actual amount that WE think it should be is not all that important as we are not in an individual position to change this specific figure.

We ARE in a position to pressurise all or any government or governments to feel guilty about why our state pension is so poor compared with the rest of Europe.

I am sure that the encumbent politicos know this already but maybe we are just not strong enough in numbers to be able to bring this subject to the top of their agenda.

Very few people getting near to state pension age would disagree that this pension SHOULD be connected to the average wage so that it is an amount that is REAL in the real world. Brown has eventually pledged to re-connect this standard after the Tories disconnecting it all those years ago but even he will not do it for FIVE YEARS from now - I don't know why he thinks there should be such a delay !

The actual amount should be based on what is required to keep the ordinary pensioners heads above water and that should be an amount that is set by what the government think is a living income for ANYBODY.

Seems easy and straight forward to me !
Regards....

Papaumau.



Ivanhoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
Re: How much ?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2009, 11:19:51 AM »
I merely answered a question posted.

The reality of the low state pension and means tested handouts is because the government are phasing the state pension out, Gordon Brown's 2012 intention is merely to help him keep in power in my opinon.

This government want people to save for their own retirement, because right wing policy dictates the individual, and not society as a whole.

John

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
Re: How much ?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2009, 12:16:03 PM »
It is not strength in numbers that fail the pensioners.

It is one of unity and common purpose.

In an ordered and well run society - there would still be final salary pensions that
were paid by amassing large funds over many years.

These were stripped by Gordon the Grabber and most collasped or stopped
taking on new members.

The State Pension are the crumbs repaid from ever increasing taxation.
The wrapper being National Insurance.

Nu Labour promised much but failed to deliver on any analysis.

Ivanhoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
Re: How much ?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2009, 12:57:32 PM »
I agree with your first statement.

It was Thatcher breaking the state pensions link with national average wages in 1980 that is the problem here, because New Labour have not reversed that policy.

This governmen t's means test system is costing over 15 times more than the restoration of the earnings link would cost.

The state pension is not low due to cost, it is low because it is being phased out.

Today's pensioners, particularly the oldest, have pad both taxation and NI contributions all their working lives.

And frankly I dont believe we are all still having this conversation that started in policy making by Thatcher almost 30 years ago.

It is a sad indictment of this country and it's under pensionable aged people who do nothing about it.

Papaumau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1574
Re: How much ?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2009, 01:09:39 PM »
It is not strength in numbers that fail the pensioners.

It is one of unity and common purpose.

In an ordered and well run society - there would still be final salary pensions that
were paid by amassing large funds over many years.

These were stripped by Gordon the Grabber and most collasped or stopped
taking on new members.

The State Pension are the crumbs repaid from ever increasing taxation.
The wrapper being National Insurance.

Nu Labour promised much but failed to deliver on any analysis.

While it is true that Brown grabbed the surplus pension funds from the public sector - and we should not forget that - the facts are that almost all of the PRIVATE final salary schemes were hit by the stock-market crash and this world recession.

( All or most of the public services are STILL on final salary schemes ! ).

The change over from final salary schemes to poorly-performing money-buying schemes was also prompted by the fact that the PRIVATE pension funds were not making nearly as much money as they had been making previously.

While I too can blame the encumbent government for a lot, I do not blame them for everything out of instinct or some knee-jerk reaction to them being in power for too long. This will be settled at the up-and-coming general election and - mark my words - the government-blaming people will be doing it again in another twelve years down the line. ( If the Tories last that long of course ).

Sadly many of us have very short memories for what has gone before !
Regards....

Papaumau.



Ivanhoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
Re: How much ?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2009, 01:45:39 PM »
Yes, particularly Tories.

Papaumau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1574
Re: How much ?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 01:29:52 PM »
BOTH in my estimation !
Regards....

Papaumau.



Ivanhoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
Re: How much ?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 01:35:15 PM »
You could be write.  There is a mindset in Britain that is primarily introvert, we dont think politically, if it's not happening to us, we dont care.