New nationalisations every day......

[Ivanhoe]

/////are  (  not )  moving to the right as fast as they can////

Dont you mean "now" ?

[Papaumau]

Papaumau Ivenhoe, New Socialist that's a new one on me, you both seem to be old fashioned social Democrats.

Hi BillB...Please don't tar us all with the same brush !

Political parties and their dogmas change and evolve on a day-by-day basis and because of this it would appear that some parties are now getting to be a bit ashamed of their past dogma.

It is easy to give a dog a bad name as names mean different things to different people. The word "Socialism" has been used and abused from the far right to the far left over the years but I think that it has finally found it's home in "New-Socialism"

This new - and still growing - political force takes the best from both right and left dogmas and allows for everybody within them to have a fair crack of the whip.

It believes that there is a place for the free-market economy and privatisation as this particular dogma is good for creating new ideas and wealth but it also sees a place for the people at the bottom too who need essential services that are not restricted by the profit motive.

Capitalism is fine in it's place but as was shown by the madness in the recent banking disasters it HAS TO BE controlled and regulated in such a way as not to run wild and get out of control.

There is room for both the left AND the right in New-Socialism and until we work something out along these lines the right and the left will always be at each-other's throats.

It is time for a change and many of us feel that this is the way to go in the future.

[Ivanhoe]

P/P, The only thing wrong with your New Socialism is that there isnt a political party putting it forward.

What we have had since 1997 is New Labour which as you know has been the same old tired Tory formula as espoused by Margaret Thatcher.

[yorkie]

Nothing wrong with Maggie.

We could do with her now, but  as she is an old frail lady.

Certain people always blame her after all these years, sure some thing's upset people, but that is Politics.

[Ivanhoe]

Yorkie, "nothing wrong with maggie"

Where the hell have you been living since the 80's ?

[Ivanhoe]

Yorkie, I omited to mention that Thatcher "is" New Labour.

[BillB]

Hi Papaumau, The question I asked was a genuine one a fraze I have not heard before 'New Socialism'. What is this new movement and were do they operate, within the Labour party or outside. Or are you picking up on the fact that there are so many disillusioned people in and around socialist politics and are looking for something to support and believe in.

We do bandy around words that as you say mean all things to all people. By talking and debating we can I hope come to an understanding and find a direction that will be given support by the electorate.

I have a real desire that the working class have a party that really fights for them and is of them. The left in British politics is ineffective, the trade unions are weak, with a few exceptions.

Taking from right and left this sounds very much like the 'Third Way' of Tony Blair or am I being unfair with your New Socialism.

A starting point for a new direction is I believe 'The People's Charter' which now has the support of the TUC.
The Trade Unions are the key to the left making any progress at all.

 Yes it is time for change the question is HOW

[yorkie]

One of the reasons we had a strong economy for so long, is thanks to Mrs Thatcher and her policies.

She new how to clean up the mess left by the destructive Labour policies of the 70s.

This did mean pain for many at the time,but she had the vision to put long term growth first. On top of this she liberated Eastern Europe and and would never have let herself be told what to do by the American President.

It is very sad to see so many people  apparently waiting for a chance to dance on her grave.

Even the current government owes her for the economic foundation she set.

We should have more respect, the rest of the world loved her.

[Ivanhoe]

Y/K What utter bilge you spew.

[Ivanhoe]

Y/K, Thatcher's legacy to Britain was a rich and poor devide, being made worse by New Labour following Thatcher's right wing policies.

[yorkie]

I think you should go to Speck Savers.

I know what I saw and it was obviously different to what you apparently did.

[Ivanhoe]

Y/K I never voted for Thatcher that's all I know, she and her policies have ruined this country economy, socially, and morally.

[yorkie]

In the course of her time as Prime Minister, she more than halved the top rate of income tax,and cut the standard rate by a quarter.
She was perfectly capable of putting up taxes out of immediate necessity.

In the late 70s she almost doubled vat, but always the direction was clear. Your money is yours,and will do more good if it stays with you.

This message was effective.Voters came to see promises to increase the top rate as evidence that Labour was a tax-raising party for all.

WE voted her in three times, evil doesn't really manifest itself in democratically Elected politicians.

What matters now is how much worse are things going to get, and was it necessary in the first place, not the Conservative Government of three decades ago, or a former PM who left power at the end of the eighties.
   

[Ivanhoe]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Under Thatcher incometax  was indeed reduced, mainly  befitting the rich, VAT was indeed increased, mainly hurting the poor.

Our vital services were starved of investment including the nhs, and the state pensions and earnings link was cut in 1980, hence old age poverty today.

I didnt vote for Thatcher, but you obviously did, evil she was 100 per cent, and ide say it on a stack of bibles in a courtroom, and prove it into the bargain.

[Papaumau]

P/P, The only thing wrong with your New Socialism is that there isnt a political party putting it forward.

I think that Ivanhoe answered your question BillB as New-Socialism - as it stands at the moment - is a bit of a hodge-podge of the best from New-Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the other "Socialist" groups, with even a bit from Toryism as driven by Capitalism and privatisation.

It does have a world presence on the internet but even here the builders of this new "third way" sometimes disagree about the direction it should take.

It still has to be brought together in a single entity that people can grab hold of but I am sure that you will all hear more about it in the near future.

Here are a few websites that discuss this new political way:

http://www.newsocialist.org/

http://www.wired.com/culture/culturereviews/magazine/17-06/nep_newsocialism

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/10/rowan-williams-recession

And here is a book that looks at these ideas in some depth
http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/

If you read all that is in these websites you may see a core of thinking that is starting to gell in ways that many of us are screaming out for. Many of the ideas seen within may be viewed as OLD-Socialism in disguise but please try to see past the obvious and glean what you may each need from this new vision.