Old age poverty in Britain versesw young people

[Ivanhoe]

Millions of pensioners go without food in this country to pay their heating bills.

Ive long campaigned to get the young involved so pensioners know they care.

We have not only got a rich and poor devide in this country, we have also got a devide between the young and the old which the politicians like to continue with because it helps get them votes.

How can we who uphold decent state pensions for our elderly people, get the younger generations to take notice and fight on behalf of their parents and grandparents ( whether their parents and grandparents can manage or not ) ?

Has anybody out there got any ideas ?

[John]

Perhaps some of these pensioners (who go without food) should go along and
explain their position to their Member of Parliament.

They are their to represent them.

You never know they may feel guilty when claiming their food off the tax payer.

Well not really, some are past any feeling of guilt...

[Papaumau]

John, you want to make up your mind !

In another post you suggest that the only sanction we have against our wayward politicians is the ballot box and yet here you are saying that we should talk to our political representatives.

I agree with you on this occasion that they are here to LISTEN TO US and if we do not talk to them in surgeries or write or fax or e-mail them they will just go on thinking they are doing everything right.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, I honestly believe our politicians in both New Labour and the Tory party are complacent and arrogant, ie, they simply dont care.

They are like the Sheriff of Nottingham and his brutes, and we are the paupers, because nothing has changed
in this country since those days of good old Robin Hood, the system and the mindest is still the same.

My idea of young people campaigning for pensioners remains just that, an idea.

[Jackie]

It does make sense that our young campaign, as they will be worse hit when there time comes, as they will have longer to wait before they recieve their State Pensions, I 'm one of the lucky ones, I only have one extra year to wait (61) yet my daughter wont recieve hers until she is 67, and she like many others of her generation will no doubt have to struggle, maybe worse than us.

[Papaumau]

Hi Jackie.....

You are right of course that as the government makes getting the state pension later and later two things are going to happen.

1).  A lot of the people hoping for a nice retirement are going to DIE before they are old enough to receive a pension.

And....

2). We are all - and especially the youngsters - going to have to pay a lot more tax and work a lot longer to pay it if we want to get a decent pension.

All this said I do think that the present chancellor is well informed on how the pensioners and the potential pensioners in Britain are feeling about this subject and his recent mini-budget raise of 2.5 percent for the pensioners shows this.

We STILL have a long way to go before the state pension in Britain comes anything near the best state pensions in greater Europe.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, sorry to but into your answer to Jackie, Im sorry but I dont agree with any of that, this government in true right wing fashion are phasing the state pension out and deaths among pensioners arent being reported.

I dont believe this scenario will change, because I dont believe New Labour give a fig for ordinary people in this country, let along pensioners.

The only chance Britain has for reaal change are the Lib-Dems, but they havent a hope in hell of getting into power.

[John]

Members of Parliament are like Doctors. In fact there are quite a few of them who are MP's.

It is an easier and more generous gravy train. Only 18 years for a full pension, unlimited expenses
(not controlled yet) and more perks then there is space for here.

Some people do not like seeing another Doctor - but needs must at that time.

With a Member of Parliament - between elections you have no choice. Whatever your politics
or faith in them!

That said I am always ready to listen to a fresh alternative view.

[Papaumau]

Papaumau, sorry to but into your answer to Jackie, Im sorry but I dont agree with any of that, this government in true right wing fashion are phasing the state pension out and deaths among pensioners arent being reported.

I dont believe this scenario will change, because I dont believe New Labour give a fig for ordinary people in this country, let along pensioners.

The only chance Britain has for real change are the Lib-Dems, but they havent a hope in hell of getting into power.

Butt in all you want Ivanhoe as even a three - or four - way conversation is possible if we all listen to what the others are saying.

AGAIN I get the "defeatist" attitude from you by saying that the encumbents are no use and the only people who might help are the Lib Dems and they have "no chance" of being elected.

Setting aside party politics for a moment I think we have to try to find the individual MPs that are willing to "run with the ball " so that they are made to do what they are supposed to do....SERVE

By contacting our own political representative - by whatever means - ( whether they are members of the party we support or not ), means that they are made to represent us whether they like it or not.

Of course our greatest stumbling blocks here are the party whips who try to make their members follow the party line in anything they do. In this case we really need to look for representatives - of whatever hue - that have the courage to do what their consciences - and we - tell them to do.

After that is done and doesn't work there is nothing to stop us from contacting OTHER MPs that are not our specific representatives.

I don't think that enough of us use this tack as if more did I am sure that all MPs would be kept up on their toes and working for us rather than the party whips.

[John]

It does depend on what you are contacting your MP over to a large degree.

Many queries are passed over to Ministers who are currently in charge
of the area where your enquiry lies.

They then have an army of staff who need to come up with the reply (for them).

That reply is normally an excuse and anyone phrasing a query should try and
make it individual and tightly focused, because otherwise you will get a stock letter.

[Papaumau]

I certainly won't argue with that premise !

This does not mean that we should not keep on their tops, as if we let things slide they will please themselves what they do.

They - including the cabinet members - are there to SERVE US and we should regularly remind them of this.

[Ivanhoe]

Jackie the State pension is being phased out in favour of the private pension which young people in short term low waged jobs will never be able to afford.

At present the state pension being linked to inflation is worth just 16 per cent of national average wages, and the beaurocracy behind means testing pensioners is costing 15 times more than the restoration of the earnings link would cost.

So as more and more people retire, state pensions costs will dwindle, and means test costs will spiral.

[Papaumau]

Sorry Ivanhoe, but I believe that the state pension can NEVER be phased out even if they wanted to.

There HAS TO BE a minimum state pension that will catch all of the poorer people that fall through any privatised pension schemes !

What we should be fighting for is that this unavoidable state pension should be set at a level that is connected to the average wage in Britain and no longer to the very questionable inflation rate.

Brown has promised to restore this connection but he has stated that this would only happen after five years had passed....WHY ?

I will answer that.....The delay is there because he knows that if his party gets booted out at the next election he will not have to fulfil this promise.

[Ivanhoe]

////What we should be fighting for is that this unavoidable state pension should be set at a level that is connected to the average wage in Britain and no longer to the very questionable inflation rate////

Yes, I agree.

But tell me in your view why you think Gorton Brown wants to avoid paying out in 2012 ?

[Hells Granny]

Well, I think Gordo doesn't want to pay out because his policies, both as Chancellor and PM have brought Britain to the brink of bankruptcy.

Yet he still pays millions to send soldiers to fight in wars, which I feel are not our business, and still plays Dame Bountiful with Foreign Aid, whilst not recognising the problems here at home.

He's like a child playing on thin ice.

Cheers, HG