Old age poverty in Britain versesw young people

[Ivanhoe]

joe public are being conned, and they are easily conned.,

[John]

The price of 'Other' at 72 Billion Pounds.

This must hide a multitude of sins - Yes I have read the small print at the bottom.

As for riches given to others. We don't have riches we have the highest
and most varied taxes in the World.

Those are our riches which Brown squanders as he poses as a World Statesman.

[Ivanhoe]

Actually John, we pay the lowest taxes in western europe.

European workers pay far higher taxes than we do, but there agaiin their goverments provide much better services.

[Papaumau]

Ah, but does that include the backdating of the difference between the two modes of evaluating the state pension ?

I bet it doesn't as if it did - even for ten years - we would see the pensioners getting many hundreds of pounds each. This would add up to a total of many MILLIONS of pounds nationally.

This just goes to show really how much the pensioners in Britain have been getting ripped out of their pockets by these miserly policies of the past Tories.

YES, it WAS Thatcher that first de-coupled the connection between the pension rate and the average wage for the much cheaper connection between the pension rate and the inflation rate.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, Which post are you responding to ?

[Ivanhoe]

/////YES, it WAS Thatcher that first de-coupled the connection between the pension rate and the average wage for the much cheaper connection between the pension rate and the inflation rate///

This was part of the right wing approach to "the role of the state".  I.E. Demolish it, in favour of of market/profit lead  economy culture.

[Papaumau]

Papaumau, Heres an expenditure fact that came from The Guardian in 2000.

"In Gordon Brown's first three years as Chancellor, 1997- 2000, he spent £840 million more, means testing pensioners, than it would have cost to restore the state pensions link with national average wages.

HERE...above is what I am responding to !

[Ivanhoe]

In 1974 The Labour government lead by Harold Wilson, and with Barbara Castle, introduced The National Insurance Act which would make sure state pensions rose in line with inflation or male average earnings whichever the higher.

///YES, it WAS Thatcher that first de-coupled the connection between the pension rate and the average wage for the much cheaper connection between the pension rate and the inflation rate///.

But it was not cheaper, it was an arrogant move to begin the removal of the "role of the state" which we are still seeing under New Labour

I will scan the item I mentioned from the Guardian.

[Papaumau]

If it was not "cheaper" to connect the state pension level with the inflation rate rather than with the average-earnings rate...why did they do it ?

Here is a rather interesting look at this subject taken by Ros Altmann of The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/oct/11/britain-state-pension-reform

Please read it carefully.

[Ivanhoe]

Yes, I know all about Ross Altmann, she and I have exchanged e.mails.

Thatcher broke the link with earnings due to arrogance, she wanted to make people feel dependent, to humiliate them, to degrade them, to stop them claiming, she wanted to create an underclass.

At the 1992 Lib-Dem conference, Paddy Ashdown said this.  "Tory education cuts are not a saving, they are an arrogance.

[John]

What does Paddy Ashdown know?

It is easy to call anything arrogant but you need to elaborate a bit.

Paddy is a one trick pony. I am talking politically here.

The problem with Thatcher was that she was arrogant and anything
she spoke about could have been labelled as such.

But this was her personality and at the time this Country needed
a strong leader.

Her arrogance let her down in the end. If she had taken the time to
explain a bit more and softened her attitude, matters could have
been a lot different.

She was easy to blame for the demise of manufacturing - but
in truth, the far east and other markets could produce the goods
cheaper and with less fuss.

[Ivanhoe]

No I dont, the Tories of the right wing pursuation are elitist and arrogant, their policies during the Thatcher Major years proved this, and New Labour are continuing this arrogance via the same right wing policies.

[John]

Talking about one trick ponies. Apart from not making sense.

Have you got any examples of what you say over and
over again like a stuck needle.

Obviously you must post how you wish, but this becomes
spam without additional detail.

[Ivanhoe]

You mean you are not aware of the right wing policies under Thatcher and Major ?, because this is what it amounts to.

[Papaumau]

What does Paddy Ashdown know?

It is easy to call anything arrogant but you need to elaborate a bit.

Paddy is a one trick pony. I am talking politically here.

The problem with Thatcher was that she was arrogant and anything
she spoke about could have been labelled as such.

But this was her personality and at the time this Country needed
a strong leader.

Her arrogance let her down in the end. If she had taken the time to
explain a bit more and softened her attitude, matters could have
been a lot different.

She was easy to blame for the demise of manufacturing - but
in truth, the far east and other markets could produce the goods
cheaper and with less fuss.

There is no doubt that Thatcher was arrogant and power-crazy and like all of her ilk eventually her own kind turned on her.

She was blamed for the demise of our manufacturing base and our heavy-engineering and shipbuilding base and our coal mining base as she WAS responsible for the deaths of those industries.

Her dogmatic support of the so-called "free-market-economy" was what brought this once great country to it's knees.

If she had  not been eventually booted out of power by her own people she would have also totally ruined our national health service. We are STILL suffering from her arrogant interfering in this great national institution.