Haiti

[John]

From all accounts this is a very corrupt Country.

Prone to easy violence and disorder. Looting starting
at the merest dropping of any guard.

This is going to be a very interesting balance between
getting aid out, the safety of the people giving out the aid
and how much money and goods are syphoned off by
the government and other corrupt officials.

What I do know is the spin on BBC news reports does not
always match the footage.

[yorkie]

Yes John,
But as you know Haiti is a very poor country, where around three quarters of the population live on less than two dollars a day, and nearly five million live on less than one dollar a day.

Its population uses whatever its got to put a roof over their heads.They seem to be dealing with life one day at a time,not thinking that something is going to happen in their future.

Bankruptcy and abject poverty has not done any favours for the population of  Haiti, they have been very poor since they had Interdependence.

Another problem I can foresee that they will have to face is, 50,000 plus dead bodies under the Caribbean Sun.

This Country has had more than it's fair share of catastrophes, so I wish all those effected all the luck in the World.

[John]

Haiti has had independence for over 200 years now.

They have had millions and millions of pounds in aid (when money was money)
before this earthquake.

It will be interesting to know how much money gets filtered off from the millions
of pounds sent for current aid. Goods stolen or looted.
(perhaps we will never know)

I have not seen a Haiti Police Officer or Soldier yet.

It appears to me that the makeshift shanties they live in have just been moved
to be near the airport for hand-outs.

The US know this Country very well having occupied it. Sending 10,000 troops
immediately, not to rescue, but to keep order.

Now that Bush is involved - perhaps he will want to drop a few bombs.

There is far more to Haiti then meets just a plea for emergency aid...

[Papaumau]

Don't view Haiti wrongly as like many other so-called "Banana Republics" there are only the very rich and the very poor in that country. As the very rich own the corrupt local and national governments and the police and militia there is nothing ever done to help the peasants there.

This earthquake has brough these flaws out into the light so that the world can see just how badly-run and desperate the general population in that country really are. If we - the whole world - do not help these stricken people nobody else is going to.

[yorkie]

Yes I except what you are both saying, but it is the ordinary Haitians I feel sorry for.

When you go into the Politics of this country, between 1956 and 1986 democracy never had a chance.

The country was being so dominated by the murderous dictator Papa Doc, whatever his name is, and his son Baby Doc.
I seem to remember Baby Doc fled to live in France.

A Catholic Priest by the name of Aristide was swept to power in a democratic election.
but  his liberation to raise wages of ordinary people did not go down well with their countries small elite or their supporters in Washington.

Within a couple of years Aritide was ousted. Some say it was the work of the CIA backed coup, but he was returned to power with the help of American Marines, sent by Bill Clinton.

Still his efforts to raise people incomes failed, because the country had become a sweat shop nation for the U.S. governments clothes industry.

This of course angered Aristide's opponents, and as a result more than 500 million dollars of Aid where blocked from the International aid.

Several years later Aristide turned to tactics of violence, to try and keep his position.

He was then forced from power supported by the elements of the Bush  administration every time there was a chance for ordinary Hietians.

The blocking of Haiti's  progress is obvious to visitors of this very small country was lacking in investment , infrastructure, and Agriculture.

Hence my statement on a previous message about their very low wages.

The magnitude and terrible tragedy is directly linked to the massive influx of people that have come to live in Port-au-Prince over recent years, and the last disaster have put a tremedous strain on all their services.   

[John]

Yes - the US has much to protect there.

If they just provided the aid - it would be enough.

There is hysteria in giving flamed by the media.

I have not seen scenes of local people running round
pulling at building rubble with their bare hands in
an attempt to rescue or look for people.

I have in other Countries when this has happened.

There is a danger of providing too much to people
who will not do anything to help others or themselves.

Where machete violence and stealing from your
own is common place.

[yorkie]

Having just watched the latest news, I am beginning to think that Marshall law should be declared as soon as possible, before it is to late, with all the carnage going on.

[John]

I see the US spin machine is trying to make Bush human.

With all these hangers on from previous administrations.

It makes me wonder how stand alone and fresh

Barack Obama really is...

[Papaumau]

Well said Yorkie !

The history of dictatorship and corrupt government in Haiti has ensuerd that the ordinary people of that country have never had a chance to get their faces out of the dirt !

Then John exasperatingly said.....

"I have not seen scenes of local people running round
pulling at building rubble with their bare hands in
an attempt to rescue or look for people.

I have in other Countries when this has happened.

There is a danger of providing too much to people
who will not do anything to help others or themselves."

If you have not seen the poor people of Haiti trying to dig out their lost loved ones with their bare hands you have not been watching the same news programmes as I have !

You can never provide "too much" help to a country/island like Haiti that has NOTHING as unlike many other earthquake-hit zones in the world at least they have had police on the streets and army personnel controlling the looting and using heavy equipment to help to dig out victims.

There has never been seen ANY local police or militia or army during this crisis and I wonder that if there are any, where the hell are they ?

It looks as if America is going to have to do that job too !

[Aptis]

Let us not mince words on this matter, this country is what it is because of the dictators and oligarchy that runs the place. From the time of François “Papa Doc” Duvalier this enclave has been run as a thief Dom for the benefit of those in power. This could be a thriving tourist resort, but what little money there it remains in the hands of a minority and that’s the way they like it. This place was a haven for pirates and it still lives up to that tradition. If those in power had made an effort and spent money on an infrastructure, on facilities for the people, or even organized a civil defense force; as any other forward thinking government would have done – then this disaster may have not seen the dead that it has. Do I feel for those who suffer? Yes! Do I feel responsible for their assistance? No! It is the primary concern of those in charge in that country and it is they who are responsible for the lives and the deaths of those in that country. They have been tested and found lacking in all departments. Perhaps this may bring about a fundamental change in the organ that laughingly calls itself a government there. We see in this country that Brown is trying to placate his conscience by donating 20 million pounds in cash to the relief effort. This is money that he has already told us that we do not have, the time has come to tell the world we no longer have money to give away, no mater what the reason, until we have paid off all our debts. It is foolish in the extreme to give money away that we have borrowed. The stupidity of this course of action defies belief.     

[John]

It does not stop people getting their hands in the dirt.

It is a wonder that Brown does not offer places here for people.

No doubt he would if he thought it would win votes.

It is a tragedy, but not helped by a people who will
not help each other or themselves.

Put their energy into fighting then helping each other.

Making more efforts forming a black market - then
sharing what is given properly.

[John]

I saw how they were dealing with the dead.

Digging holes in graveyards and throwing the old bones of other people
in a pile and then burying the dead.

They did this to wall crypts as well - just shoving the bones of the
previous dead out.

I get the idea that life is cheap and the dead are not respected or
remembered for long...

[Aptis]

Papa Doc  and Baby Doc were the first modern day thugs to rule this tainted paradise, and to this day the people of these islands know only thuggery and oppression. This situation has been ignored by the rest of the world because they have nothing the world wants except a beautiful island, had there been oil in the waters or under the palm trees America would no doubt have enforced a democratic rule in this painful country. But if it were me I would give nothing of the tax payers money to aid this horrendous event. Add this money to the money we pay out to immigrants, a prime example is the Romanian Gypsies that came here to collect benefits that they said they are entitled to, and we are bleeding to death financially. How can we possibly give out money to people that have paid nothing in, and be in credit? Ask the question, Why is it that the majority of those in Calais are from the middle east, and why do they all want to come here and not settle in Germany, Austria, Portugal, Italy or France? Because we are soft, we give help and aid to those who do not deserve it. These people know nothing of a welfare state and they will go anywhere, and go to any lengths for a free hand out. As that thief of a Muslim said The tax payers money belongs to Allah and that’s why he can have £25,000 per year in benefits. And we even give aid to those that hate us! We are drowning because of all those Politically Correct crackpots that would give the world and his aunt a life in this country. And give aid all and sundry with money that we do not have. These are the fools that are crippling this country with their misplaced humanity.        

[Papaumau]

Aptis.....

Just because Papa Doc and Baby Doc were murdering dictators and Haiti has always been a place where the very rich could get even richer at the expense of the people does not mean that we should just turn our backs on their plight - especially after they have ben hit so hard by this recent earthquake.

It is not the people's fault that they are ruled by a bunch of corrupt no-users as without some form of people's revolution they will never have emancipation or a chance to shape their own destiny.

Until that day dawns all we can do is to try to help them in as many ways as our own riches can allow us to.

This kind of help is called humanitarian aid and it is based on how civilised we are and how much we will be prepared to make the smallest effort to help people who need it despite them having a government that is corrupt and uncaring.

[Aptis]

  Papaumau

   I take it you mean help them by giving them money – them being the officials that have the power in that country. After all one would not expect our illustrious representative to stand on a street corner and hand out money to those that may happen by. One would give this money to those who are supposed to be in charge of this country and therefore be giving it to the people that have shown themselves to be incapable of looking after all others except themselves. A paradise led by pirates.

   So that would once again bring us back to the subject, of where do we get this 20 MILLION that our great leader has so generously donated in our name. Me thinks it comes from the money we have been loaned, and hence is not really ours; but nevertheless money that we will all have to pay interest on. As I have said before this is the accountancy of the lunatic asylum. As Dickens said;  “Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen & six, result happiness.” Failure to follow this philosophy and we look disaster in the face and even we may then become recipients of foreign aid from Africa in the near future.

   So using this occasion as a yard stick, would it not be fair to say that we must give money to all those countries that have, natural disasters, economic disasters (Zimbabwe) and any other kind of disaster that strikes any country in this world; although we do not have the financial strength to aid them and keep ourselves above water.

    I note that no one has rushed in funds to aid anyone caught in the latest British floods. We still have people living in caravans from last year because they cannot get back into their houses; and yet we are giving money away to foreign countries? Where is the foreign aid that has been accrued to aid OUR flood victims. Our natural disasters may not be as big; but they are of great enormity to those it has affected.