Cadbury's

[Papaumau]

Actually, in many ways we agree about the New-Labour philosophy as it IS true that Blair dragged Labour screaming and kicking far over to the right wing in order to get elected. What was even worse was that he KEPT New-Labour over there on the right so that it was not long until "Labour" started to look like an ersatz TORY party.

Many of the "free-market-economy" policies of the Tories were not only allowed to continue but they were extended to bring in many right-wing privatisation policies that even Thatcher might have baulked at.

The worst that they did was to continue the "privatise everything including the kitchen sink" policies of Thatcher so that eventually there was very little of the "family silver" left that belonged to the people of Britain.

The only time that Blair's or Brown's government EVER did anything that even looked like a "lefty" move was when they "nationalised" Railtrack and nationalised or took public control of Northern Rock and others when as private entities they made a total hash of it.

[John]

They had to nationalise them to save face and stop them collapsing.

They had little choice as both were pivotal in diverse industries.

You are right - it just looked 'lefty' with no substance whatsoever. 

[Papaumau]

John said:
They had to nationalise them to save face and stop them collapsing

And while that may be true it is also true that many of these reckless industries and banks etc' were "private" long before Labour started to run the country and it was not because of anything that Labour did that caused them to start to collapse. It was the usual greed and arrogance and recklessness that is built into many self-delusional privateer entities that caused the start of the collapse. Once under way the government - ANY government - had to step in to protect the ordinary customers and savers from the personal indulgences of these money and profit-crazy fools.

To have stood by and watched them fail would have been an even worse thing to do than propping them up and hoping that they might recover and pay back these taxpayer loans when things started to pick up again. 

[John]

Yes Labour only had 10 to 11 years in power before the financial cracks appeared and the final collapse.

How many years does a 'do nothing' government need to avoid taking any responsibility and leadership qualities to appear?

I doubt these two qualities will ever appear with this control freak dictator. It must be apparent to many that this is not a government where discussion is open. Any decision is  a result of internal bullying, even if the individual Minister has the capability of understanding their portfolio.

[Papaumau]

You REALLY ARE entrenched in the past twelve years aren't you John ?

Before any of us can start to chuck blame about - especially in this situation - we have to be able to look back many more years than twelve.

Nationalisation has been branded over the years as responsible for certain industries and entities failing and because of the bad name that nationalisation was stuck with many rightist viewers and their grumbling and unsatisfied supporters fell into the dogma that only private industry and the profit motive could do ANYTHING right.

We have all been shown recently that the greed for ever more profits and personal riches has proven that the privatisation route is just as capable of getting it seriously wrong.

Now that this IS the case we see many failed PRIVATE entities having to be bailed out by public cash because they would have been destroyed if we had not come to their aid.

People like me are not surprised one bit when things happen like this as uncontrolled greed and recklessness MUST eventually fall apart.

( The rules that control and regulate the privatised industries and banks have - over the years - been eroded and  destroyed so that these groups finally only had their consciences to make them do the right things so as to protect their customers and shareholders ).

I have always been of the opinion that if nationalised industries, ( especially the essential services ), are run properly, regulated properly and financed properly, ( which they never were in the past ), there is no reason why the nationalised industries and entities of the future should not be completely successful and protected for the use of the greater part of the people of this country.

After the business regulations were eroded away to nothing by the previous Tory government, led by Thatcher and the presently encumbent government did not have the courage to re-impose these regulations as they should have, once the self-imposed regulations failed it became inevitable that the whole worldwide industry would come crashing down.

Now the governments of the developed world are being forced to apply sticking plaster fixes to these entities and we are all hoping that the same set of circumstances do not ever come about again.

If these controls are not put in place after learning from our mistakes and these greed-driven private entities that I speak of are once again given a free hand I - for one - fear that this situation might happen all over again.

[John]

Not entrenched - this is not blame.

This is the result of inept government that went presidential.

Greed has always been controlled by regulation of government.

Labour have been clueless, making excuses at every turn.

Hopefully the Electorate will have seen through the spin and lies - now add crying and looking down trodden.

[Papaumau]

That last statement - that I will not bother quoting - just proves that you are unable to see past what has happened in the time of the present government.

As I said before somewhere......"If we are not able to remember and recognise our past mistakes we are destined to repeat them !"

While you are expending all of your efforts on castigating this government and Gordon Brown in particular you are completely missing what has went on before under another government.

Many people on Britain seem willing to do that and that is why the habitual electorate swing back and forth between Labour and Tory.

As neither of these political philosophies seem capable of doing what the electorate want or need I say that they have BOTH lost the confidence of the people of Britain - NOT JUST the failed Labour government.

It is the risk that they might just elect another Tory government that bothers me as if they do things will not get any better and as far as the ordinary people of Britain are concered they could get much worse under another elitist, greedy and selfish Tory government.

[John]

Sticking to this topic - this government have done nothing.

Major businesses have done one of three things since this government
decided not to get involved in matters.

1. They have gone to the wall

2. They have been bought out on the cheap by overseas companies

3. They have taken production overseas

At least the Cadbury sell off was a financial success for the Board & Shareholders.

They did not fit 2. But they will fit into 3 at some stage...

[Papaumau]

And you blame Brown for all this do you ?

[John]

Yes - Between Blair and Brown for removing any objection or inquiry into
matters not in the interest of this Country or its people.

For allowing vast amounts of public tax to be deposited in Icelandic Banks
that enabled major purchases of the British High Street.

This is part of the reason that there are many empty shops.

Bully Boy Brown must go because far too much has been messed up
by a Labour administration.

[Papaumau]

John, I do not know - couldn't find - how much of the treasury money was invested in Iceland banks but I did find that most of the money lost was lost to local authorities, charities and individuals who thought that the high-interest-rewards that the Iceland banks were paying were worth the risk.


Obviously, they were not and the old maxim that "if a thing looks too good to be true, it usually is" certainly fits here.

I DO know that many of the seriously-devalued investment banks - located in the City of London - that crashed during the big bank crash did so as they too had invested money in the "too-good-to-be-true" Iceland banks.

A lot of so-called "very-skilled" investment speculators were brought down by their reckless acts connected to Iceland and it is THEY that need to take your brickbats and NOT Brown.

It would appear that your blinkers in that respect are closing tighter and tighter as each day passes.

[John]

This Government Regulators (Quangos) were left to their own devices
when it came to the Banking System, Charities and  Councils, NHS etc.

Who left them to their own devices?

This incompetent Labour Government.

I wish I had blinkers on - I would be in the bliss of ignorance.

[Papaumau]

You can't blame everything that happens to everybody on "quangos" and "the government" as individuals and local authorities and private companies and others who were caught out by the attractive - if risky - offerings of the Icelandic banks did so with their eyes wide open and their greed in full flow !

[Hugh]

Our once labour controlled Notts county council put millions into Icelantic banks and now under Conservative controll are having to shed 1500 jobs to save money and freezing our council tax to help us. If labour had remained in power I would hate to think what our council tax would have been. For many years now our pension rises have been taken from us in council tax rises. This year it would have been the rise and more. Being able to shed 1500 jobs it just shows where all our taxes were going.

[Papaumau]

Not crowing but....In Scotland the council tax has been frozen for three years.

The Scottish Nationalist government wanted to introduce a much fairer local income-tax instead of the hated council tax but as they are a minority government and they could not get any support from the Labour or Tory groups for this idea it had to be allowed to fall.

Maybe if they are returned next year with a proper majority we may find that the Nats will introduce that local income tax bill again. At least I hope so.

( We find that what happens in Scotland is often copied in England too shortly afterwards ).