Arthur Scargill speaks.

[Papaumau]

Why would coal be cheaper to buy from abroad than it would be to mine it and burn it cleanly here ourselves ?

Coal bought from abroad is either produced in VERY dangerous mines that have no safety restrictions and that are manned by people getting slave wages or it it is so heavily subsidised by the country that is exporting it that we cannot compete.

Because of the price of oil and gas and the carbon that comes from these types of fossil fuels they are not a good choice any more for generating power. As coal - still in plentiful supply in Britain - is mined more efficiently and the new power-stations that are to be built or converted to burn it cleanly come on line we may find that our own coal will suddenly become flavour of the month again.

[John]

Because like oil - coal is not the same.

Basically it depends where it is mined as to its sulphur content
affecting the environment and heat efficiencies.

British Coal however cheaply mined requires more preparation
which exceeds the import costs.

When this has to be done by private enterprise without government
assistance - you have little choice except to go for the cheapest route.

It is all about producing profit as you know.

[Papaumau]

I agree that the quality of coal differs markedly from mine to mine and that some is low suphur and low tar and some - like anthracite for example - is extremely clean - if high in carbon and low in tar and other hydrocarbons and is expensive.

See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthracite

The fact that all of our deep mines were foolishly shut down by Thatcher on one of her power-trips means that we now no longer have ANY of that coal available to us now.

They have tried to fill this gap by surface-mining but such open-cast mining is environmentally questionable and not so cheap either.

Once our new or converted coal-fired power-stations are online and capable of delivering electricity cleanly via sulphur and carbon-capture and storage we may suddenly find that our own deep coal is worth digging up once again.

[avalonmpk]

When I was a youngster every Welsh miner and those in the Somerset coalfields most definitely did not want their offspring to go down the mines!

Why oh why can't all the nations in each hemisphere get together and utilize the desserts for solar energy, it will bring employment to many locals  who have a very poor standard of living, create manufacturing opportunities for the industrialized nations and dare I say it - possibly peace - and then we in Britain will not have to send foreign aid to so many foreign places; this in turn will leave enough money in our Treasury to support those in the last quarter of their lives in dignity. At the same time we might get some of the scroungers out there gainfully employed

[Papaumau]

Avalonmpk.......

While I agree with you about getting power from the sun, ( which shines constantly in some areas of the world ), I do not agree with your "foreign aid" point or your stereotyping of everybody that is on benefits as  "scroungers".

That is a very dangerous thing to do !

In the future, ( and Scotland is already leading the world in these technologies ), we will find that as the fossil-fuels, ( ALL of them ), become too expensive to win any more we will be forced to go fully down the renewables route.

I just stop and think now and again just how much energy is going to waste when the sun shines and the wind blows and the rain falls and the waves crash onto the shore and the tides go back and forth twice a day EVERY DAY.

We are idiots for not harnassing as much as we can of this totally free and perfectly clean energy !

[Ivanhoe]

avalonmpk, I take it you didnt see the recent BBC1 programmes "Famous Rich and jobless" ?

Im British born and bred, and im utterly ashamed of the mindsets of some British people who just repeat like a parrot mantra this "scroungers" word, it comes from empty bigoted minds.

And as far as pensioners are concerned, means testing this generation is costing 15 times more of tax payers money than it would cost to restore the pensions and earnings link cut by Thatcher in 1980.

And the reason for means testing is not to target the poorest pensioners, it is because the State pension is being phased out as the cornerstone of retirement in Britain, and the expensive private pension taking it's place.

In years to come when todays British youth are old and grey, the majority will be on means tested handouts
because the State pension wont be worth a light.

[avalonmpk]

I called them scroungers And I meant it ! on  my income I pay less than a hundred pounds a year in income tax I pay £1600 in council and goodness knows how much in VAT and other taxes.
My wife and I purchased or house 50 years ago took two jobs each for a year just to raise the deposit. we bought in an area which at the time was not very popular but because it is on the edge of what is now a very desireable and beautiful village it has increased in value by more than we earnt in our working lives so we are taxed to the hilt because we stood on our own feet to pay for scroungers. Now they want death tax. When I ask about getting a reduction in council tax some snotty little socialist said to move to some where cheaper.
These scroungers have money to go the pub, the betting shop, smoke like chimneys and attend football  matches.
I'm fed up paying for illegitimate children drug abusers dangerous dogs and immoral fools!

[Ivanhoe]

//////I called them scroungers And I meant it ,///////

Yes you meant it, because it suits you to do so.

You dont want to "think" constructivelly, all your interested in is knee jerk reaction rubbish, and it is rubbish the way you talk.

In your mind everybody has to do exactly what you and your wife did to get started, and the pub is full of scroungers, what an awful mindset.

[John]

Ivanhoe

Have you let your mate post for you?

For someone who is stuck in the Thatcher Years mindset. Its refreshing if inaccurate.

avalonmpk posts from the here and now. His post oozes the reality of today for many.

The state pension has nothing to do with scrounging but it is in danger of going that way.

We must be getting close to the 'never had a job, never wanted a job, never accepted a job' State Pensioner
who will moan like hell when some previous sources of benefits are not open to them.

[Ivanhoe]

John, No one speaks for me.

The State pension has already been paid for through decades of working people, the pensioners of today.

This is 2010, 21st Century Britain.

Thatcher began the decline in State pensions in 1980 when she cut the link with national average wages.

Todays youngsters are going to face means testing on an untold scale when they reach retirement age, because the State pension wont be worth a light, today it's worth just 16 per cent of national average wages.

New Labour having adopted Thatcher's mindset/ethos/ideoligy, want people to save for their own private pensions, this, in a countrys and Government that is obsessed with markets courtesy of Thatcher.

In short, low waged, short term, insecure.

[Papaumau]

If you are man enough John, you have to admit that he - Ivanhoe - is right about that !

[Ivanhoe]

//////I just stop and think now and again just how much energy is going to waste when the sun shines and the wind blows and the rain falls and the waves crash onto the shore and the tides go back and forth twice a day EVERY DAY.//////

None of it makes a profit for the greedy Tories..........................yet.

[Ivanhoe]

////It is all about producing profit as you know./////

Never have guessed.