Follies of the Minimum Wage

[Papaumau]

As I said in the "UK jobs losses" thread:

The minimum wage is simply a protection from unscrupulous employers paying slave wages and without it the people without skills would have to accept jobs that do not lift them out of the poverty trap.

The British cost of living sets the level of the minimum wage so that the people who are willing to work are not forced to work for less than they could get on benefits.

Whether it is benefits or minimum wages that we are discussing here we have to realise that both of them are set at just above the poverty level for Britain.

Just because there are illegal sweat-shops that employ trafficked Eastern Europeans at less than the national minimum wage does not make this condition right. The authorities should camp down on these crooked employers so that slaves are not allowed in Britain.

NO WAY, can we compete with the cheap wages of the third world as our cost of living determines what we must be paid in order to be able to simply subsist.
 
If we want our unskilled people to be willing to get out of their beds in the morning we HAVE TO pay them a decent basic pay ! With this argument in mind I am willing to say that the national minimum wage is STILL too low.

We have to keep in mind that it is the amount of money in the hands of the ordinary population that keeps the economy of Britain ticking along and if we don't have money to spend the economy could stall and instead of a recession we could finish up with a depression.

I do not think that anybody wants that, do they ? 

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, Precisely.  But some people are unable to think outside of their own front door.

[Hugh]

This forum wouldn't be very interesting if every one agreed with every one would it

[Ivanhoe]

The trouble with having such victorian vews as youself, is that if enough people hold these same views, then Britain goes back to a victorian mindest as per Thatcher.

I agree with Papaumau, the minimum wage level in Britain is not enough, I believe it should be at least £10 per hour.

[Hugh]

Are you just blind of whats going on around you since the minimum wage came in at just a modest level. We now cannot compete with other countries on manufacturing or any thing for that matter. Just go down the job centre and see how long the queues are. You want young people to help pensioners well they won't be able to because there are no jobs. London underground 800 jobs being shed, same number lines and trains. Less people to do the same amount of work. Minimum wage great for the people with a job, for the rest they can just dream and use up their saving untill they can join people in poverty on the dole. Go on blame Thatcher cannot be any thing to do with new labour who have been in power for the last 13 years. Brown he's got billions to give away abroad to make a name for him self, for us pensioners not a lot. 

[Ivanhoe]

/////Are you just blind of whats going on around you ////

No I definately aint.

And like I said, New Labour have continued Thatcher's fundamental right wing free market policies since 1997.

[John]

Coachloads of cheap Labour can be brought in to do most jobs.

Deductions for board (mattresses on workplace floor) and food (basic)

Pay £1.80 - £2 per hour - but based on 16-17 hours a day.

Will still be more than Home Country per day.

Pay slip shows minimum pay, working hours matched to suit.

Time off to claim benefits.

Child Benefit sent back home. After 12 months lots more benefits. Housing etc.

If ever caught can just go back home. Alternatively stop to face Mickey Mouse sentencing.

Have visit from family when one needs an operation or teeth fixed.

Can all this really be true?

Running a Coach and Horses through the Minimum Wage and Benefits system...

[Hugh]

Here some thing else Thatcher can be blame for "WORK FOR NOTHING TO GET WORK EXPERIENCE" and in some cases "PAY TO GET WORK EXPERIENCE"

Desperate measures in desperate times cannot be any thing to do with new labour can it? he's only following Thatcher lead.

[Ivanhoe]

Your cynicism is noted, but it all goes back to the Thatcher years and the begginings of the free market which she began and which have been adopted by New Labour.

[Hugh]

I was expecting more from you Ivanhoe when the Tories are selling work experience to the highest bidder to raise funds.

[Ivanhoe]

I dont know what more you could expect from me, because what I know is that New Labour have embraced Thatcherism since the 1997.

What more is there to say ?

[Papaumau]

Are you just blind of whats going on around you since the minimum wage came in at just a modest level. We now cannot compete with other countries on manufacturing or any thing for that matter. Just go down the job centre and see how long the queues are. You want young people to help pensioners well they won't be able to because there are no jobs. London underground 800 jobs being shed, same number lines and trains. Less people to do the same amount of work. Minimum wage great for the people with a job, for the rest they can just dream and use up their saving untill they can join people in poverty on the dole. Go on blame Thatcher cannot be any thing to do with new labour who have been in power for the last 13 years. Brown he's got billions to give away abroad to make a name for him self, for us pensioners not a lot. 

I don't think that it is the level of the minimum wage in Britain that makes us unable to compete with other countries; it is because they pay so much less than us rather than us paying so much more in a world economy.

As I said before......It is the cost of living in each country that drives wages up and at the moment we pay our bottom end FULL TIME workers just about enough to keep them from starving.

Don't take my word for it, just look at the level that benefits are set at and you will find the minimum level that wages should be set at.

There are a number of nasty ways - as John highlighted - that employers CAN pay less than the minumum wage but, legal or illegal, these abuses do not detract from the fact that if around forty hours are worked per week at the bottom there has to be a wage paid that makes it worth-while for the worker to go to work at all - in Britain.

If we do not fight to ensure that this minimum wage is sustained the unscrupulous employers WILL pay slave rates !   

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau.  BRILLIANT.

[Hugh]

We can argue as much as we like about minimum wage but at the moment there is no work at any price and unemployment is growing at an alarming rate. In my life time I have never known it so bad. Most of our works gone abroad, and a lot now being taken by immigrants at home as John says. One illegal managed to get a job in the House of Lords. Just shows how much interest the powers to be are taking on the matter. Many young people have spent a small fortune to get an education only to find there is no work for them to repay their loan and with retirement age going to rise its not going to help young people get a life off the dole. All the minimum wage as done so far is to give our work to others and pushed many people into poverty and more to follow.

[Ivanhoe]

Hugh, In Thatcher's market lead economy, high unemployment was a price worth paying stated Norman Lamont in the 80's.

Unfortunately our New Labour government have continued this very same "market lead" economy.

And as you rightly point out, our young people are continuing to be shafted, including you're son.

But I can hold my head up and state that I never voted for Thatcher or Major during their premierships.

Was'nt it you that stated you did very well out of the Tory years ?