British Airways - the truth

[Papaumau]

So CC...what you are in fact saying is that if BA are unable to compete against the likes of Virgin Atlantic and Gulf-Air etc' etc' they should make the company more cost-effective by IMPOSING cuts on wages and conditions of employment for the BA cabin crews eh ?

I am sure that the Unite union might have been willing to negotiate about such changes of employment conditions but to have them IMPOSED like from a dictator on high the way Walsh tried to do it would have had YOU up on your hind legs if you had been effected this way too.

REMEMBER, if a vote is 92.5 percent carried FOR industrial action in a union as mild as Unite usually are there HAS TO BE something seriously wrong.

[Hugh]

But 92% didn't go on strike did they? I am pretty sure the cuts which are required would never be agreed to by Unite. Have a good look at what Air Emirates as to offer and check what customers have had to say. The union will be quite happy to have their members on strike for a duration but they will be collecting their wages won't they?
The way I see it the union wanted a fight with the management for what reason I don't know? Even they must see the airlines being under cut left right and centre and as serious problems.

[cheddar-caveman]

"mild" and "union" just don't go together I'm affraid, two totally opposite words!

You only have to listen to and watch the Unite representatives presentation tactics at any of their meetings with the BA cabin crews and it takes you right back to the early 1940's films of Hitler at his mass rallies! Clenched fists, spit flying everywhere, just pure coercion!

[Hugh]

Don't think you need to go back that far CC.  4 days and they didn't even get round to talking, but still both sides won't be losing any wages so they will have a nice easter.

[John]

British Airways are an independent business.

How they run their business and treat their workforce is ultimately down to them.

These strikes and workforce dissatisfaction are a reflection of this.

BA is a well placed brand and as such is not likely to disappear come what may.

[Papaumau]

Yes CC, everything is found in degrees and even in unions there are the well-known STRONG ones and the lesser-known "MILD" ones.

There are actually very few of the radical unions left since our Maggie emasculated almost all of them in the eighties and early nineties.

The history of the Unite union says that it has almost always been willing to negotiate with employers to get the best out of it's members but this latest run of imposed conditions has brought the union to have to behave unlike they have ever behaved before.

There comes a point when the workers have to stand firm to try to uphold their rights when a dogmatic company like BA think they can simply browbeat their employees into doing anything that Willy Walsh thinks is right. 

Believe me that as a trade-unionist in the civil service I KNOW just how things can go when two sides come to an impasse. Eventually they have to reach an agreement that is acceptable by all and such agreements are NEVER reached by bullies like Willie Walsh wielding a big hammer.

British Airways are bleeding to death at the moment and mark my words, if Walsh does not start to negotiate with the union they ARE going to go down the tubes and be picked up for a song by the investment hyenas out there. Not even a previously powerful company like BA can resist an aggressive takeover bid by one of these rapacious beasts.

[John]

The Unions and Associations of to-day are all about negotiation.

When Industry was number 1 - of course there were disputes.

The workforce wanted their share of the rewards, not to be treated as poorly paid slaves.

[cheddar-caveman]

It seem odd that BA staff, although being amongst the highest paid out of just about all the airlines, have always been the most millitant. They also do not provide a service comparable with the others any more.
 
As an airline, BA are well down the list these days for service quality. My son flew back from Canada last year on BA and said that the service was bismal and the staff grumpy.

They really need to take a close look at what they have compared to their fellow airline workers, get back to work and be greatful that they haven't all been sacked, caus that's what I'd do to them!

[John]

So in your World - if someone is being paid peanuts. That sets the level that all should be paid?

[cheddar-caveman]

You'd better believe that NO mainline airline staff are paid peanuts! They are all well above the national average wages. However, BA, through the millitancy over the years have been forced to pay more and more to retain their staff and now it's crunch time, but the staff don't want to help, they still want more and more when more isn't available.

Thought - hope I go past a picket line today - we're flying out this afternoon. I'll take greaty pleasure of telling them what I think!
 

[Hugh]

The question is John why is it only at Heathrow that BA have staff problems? The BA cabin  crew which is a fancy name for waitress are on good money compared to their land base counterparts. They should open their eyes and see that there are now many airlines giving the same high standards of service at a much cheaper cost to the passengers. Many of their regular customers who have now been forced into trying out these other airlines will they return

[Papaumau]

I don't think that the BA cabin crews are paid much more than other comparable cabin crews, per qualifications, are and the idea that they are overpaid is just silly. A BA cabin crew member was on the news last night saying that she was getting just slightly more than the minimum wage and that the rest of her salary was made up with perks. ( Perks that incidentally Willie Walsh has removed from their salaries ).

It is obvious that Walsh wants to play hardball and he is afraid of losing his masculinity if he appears weak and starts to negotiate. This is a perfect illustration of what an employer might have looked like in the days of the British empire !

Someone should tell Walsh that he is not living in the British empire any longer.

[John]

There is no national interest in BA. Berating the wage or function of its employees is not a public issue or function.

Many organisations and companies are insular. What may be taking place to the outside observer is not the true position. There is certainly more money and time spent on projecting and protecting image then ever before.

The spin off from this is a blurred view from outside.

[Hugh]

I think the problem is other airlines operate with less staff so in the end job cuts will have to be made, and the rest will be on short time until business builds up. The longer this strike goes on the worse it will be for them.
Apart from cheap flights I wonder what other perks they have which they haven't mentioned. If they are just on the minimum wage they must have other allowances to be able to live in London. 

[John]

As with many industries, time and motion studies cut jobs and increased the motion of those left.

There was a time that work fitted a social equation. That it was not just work, work, work.

Canteens, Dances, Outings, Parties, Social Clubs, Sports Grounds, Holiday Homes, Christmas Hampers etc., were all provided or part provided for the workers.

You would be lucky to have a pension scheme now.

These perks are extremely thin on the ground now (obviously very much alive for our overpaid politicians).