Blair Wheeled Out

[Ivanhoe]

//////Why is it always "back to Thatcher". That is seriously old history and unchangeable. However, the last twelve years of Labour are now, the present, and hopefully the majority of people will take a good look at what they have done to this poor country, and vote them OUT!///////////

You are clearly one of those who have forgotten the 18 years of Tory Government.

What we have under New Labour are the New Thatcherites.

However New Labour have helped the elderly with extra means tested and non means tested handouts, so New Labour I hope will win the general election for the sake of the elderly.

[cheddar-caveman]

However New Labour have helped the elderly with extra means tested and non means tested handouts, so New Labour I hope will win the general election for the sake of the elderly.

My god Ivanhoe, you seriously want another four years of this government? Yes there has been a spattering of help for us but look what they have doen to the country overall.

We are almost untouchable in the monetary world with the world bank ready to refuse us any more loans because of our huge debt. We now rank around that of Greece.

Iraq! An illegal, totally  disasterous war just to appease the Yanks. Hundreds dead.

The Afghan war, for what? Another excuse to show how great we are? Many more dead.

Our terrible financial situation, taken into the deepest recession in living memory because of Browns policies both as chancellor and then PM.

The list goes on and personally I am prepared to give up a spattering of personal help for the sake of the country as a whole. We really cannot afford another month, let alone four years of Brown/Labour. They'll be into Iran next with another illegal war.

God help us!

[Ivanhoe]

C/C, Let's look at the Blair/Brown years in perspective, particularly regarding the war in  Iraq, because it's also easy to sling mud at the Government "one". doesnt like

Firstly, although Blair was the PM when we went to what is laughingly called a war, which incidently I did not agree with, it was in my view more a mass slaughter of the innocent.

Please correct me if im wrong here, but was'nt the vote on going to war, a cross party decision ?

Secondly, although we will never really know,, but if the Tory's had won the 1997 general election, do yu think things would have been any different ?

Thirdly, it is so easy to be an armchair critic re- international affairs.

[Papaumau]

I am sorry Ivanhoe but even as a Socialist I don't want to see any more of the Blair and Brown bandwagon. They have had their chance to get it right for ALL of Britain and we surely have to admit that they have failed.

I believe that Blair started the rot when he dragged New-Labour so far over to the right, ( and I am sure that you agree with me here ), and I am terribly disappointed with what Gordon Brown did with his time too when we have to consider that Brown is much closer to his psychological Labour roots than Blair ever was.

Brown says in his latest blurb that "there only IS two choices" but that is in fact a lie as - at least in England - there is a third choice if enough people take it. The Liberal Democrats, ( love em or hate em ), are almost certainly going to be the party that gathers the other smaller groups together after an indecisive result so that they and their allies like The Greens and The SNP party and Plaid Cymru will force the big two to behave themselves after May 6th.


THAT is my hope for the future of Britain !

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau

I would love to see the Lib-Dem's form Government believe me, but what I dont want to happen is for the Lib-Dems to take votes from New Labour/Labour voters and have this move put the Tories back in.

Because you know what will happen to the pensioners income if the Tories by default are able to form Government.

[Papaumau]

I quite agree that that is one possible scenario if previous Labour supporters choose to go to the Lib Dems as a protest vote.

Having said that I am not willing to accept that Gordon Brown's scare tactics in this respect are actually correct. It is all about HOW MANY people from all previous right and left positions choose to vote Lib Dem this time that matters.

The pollsters already believe that the people of Britain are so sick to the back teeth of a repetitive two-party system that many of them are now actually looking for a hung parliament.

As the polls for Labour and the Tories come closer and closer together the likes of Brown and Cameron are TERRIFIED that neither of them will have a decisive majority on May 6th and the only way to ensure that that does not happen - as far as they are concerned - is to frighten the punters into thinking that either of the others will get in if we choose to support anything BUT the big two.

I for one am NOT frightened by this rhetoric.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, I too hope there is a hung Parliament because I believe the politicians need a kick up the backside putting it midly,I think the expenses scandal has sent shock waves round the country and so I agree with what you say, Britain needs P.R., just as they have in Europe.

[Papaumau]

The Labourites - in their manifesto - have promised voting reform but I cannot see it being made into proportional representation as the FPTP system works very well for Labour.

The only group that are truly promising the PR system of voting are The Liberal Democrats !

[Ivanhoe]

Precisely, but they will never win power, so they wont be able to impliment it.

[Papaumau]

Sorry Ivanhoe, but that is very negative thinking ! If everybody thought like you they - The Lib Dems - would certainly never get anywhere.

We are all fighting against old pre-conceptions and old habits of the past and not until we beat these devils will we be able to change what happens in our parliament.

Two important polls today reported that the gap between the Tories and the Labourites has been reduced to 3% and 5% and that is even more in line with a hung parliament.

It is only if we give the minority candidates a few extra seats that we will be able to free them up to influence what goes on in day-to-day happenings in the parliament. It is in times like these that they will be able to strike deals and find the power that they might not get by not having a proper working majority.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, If enough people vote Lib-Dem, this could put the Tories back in power by misadventure, and we dont want that, do we ?

[Papaumau]

I DO get your point Ivanhoe and BOTH the Labourites and the Tories are continually pushing this point in order to try to frighten us.

I am not afraid of the scaremongering Labourites OR the Tories and I hope that many more people dismiss these scare tactics so that the Liberal Democrats eventually hold even up to a possible third of the vote. If they can do that the other terrible-two will have their power-bases destroyed and will then come to depend on the power-sharing that will make up any hung parliament.

As I see it, if the Liberal Democrats do not finish up with a working majority, this will be the next best scenario. At least I hope so !

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, What im afraid of is that if the Tories regain power, they will take away the pensioners benefits introduced under New Labour, ie the Pensions Credits and the winter fuel payment.

[Papaumau]

Ivanhoe.....

Neither you nor I can dictate to people how to vote but we can try to PERSUADE them about what is the best of the worst possible ways to behave.

Only negative thoughts that any of the old two might get back in again are going to be what LET them back in.

If we all think positively and don't let our fears dictate our actions then we can change the face of politics in Britain.

Another saying of my ole Irish grannie was......"Faint heart never won fair lady !" and of course she was right again. 

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, I say again to you that the worst possible scenario is a Tory government brought about by people voting for the Lib-Dems in our First Past the post system.  I do notcnsider what im saying to you to be negative, im speaking for the natiolns pensioners.

Millions of pensioners need those benefits as you rightly know, if pensioners did not need them I would agree with you, im thinking very positivelly about this.