hypocritcal grabbing pensioners

[Papaumau]

I am sure that human nature is basically selfish and because of this quality many people just take interest in their own demographic rather than caring about what they are not and where they are not.

Having said that I do think that there are a number of people that do think ahead and see what is coming to them when they get old. In fact it is that quality that makes the pressure-groups effective when they are not all filled with oldies.

I can remember when I was working as a time-served joiner in the building trade and it hit a very bad bump in employment at that time. This made me think about what might happen to me if I was turning 60+ and I was still traipsing round the schemes trying to get more and more money on bonus contracts.

After thinking about it for a while I decided that I would be much better off trying to get into the civil service where I would get a guaranteed pension. I DID do this and I started off in St Andrews House in the mail-room. After working my way up I did finish up with a good occupational pension.

I am also sure that there must be more people like me out there that ARE prepared to think ahead !

[Hugh]

Well Papa I guess we have a lot more in common than you may think. I was a time serve engineers pattern maker but sure a bleak future so I joined the Royal Navy for 22 years sure the world, and received a nice pension at 45 years of age. I also paid into SERPS all in all a comfortable retirement pension. I nearly got killed in the war down south, but that what we were paid for. The attacking air crafts were armed with anti aircraft bullets which saved my bacon ( none explosive) 

[Ivanhoe]

What years during those 22 years in the Navy did you serve ?

[Hugh]

What years during those 22 years in the Navy did you serve ?

1962 t0 1984     

[Ivanhoe]

What years during those 22 years in the Navy did you serve ?

1962 t0 1984     

In truth, you have never been effected by Thatcherism, have you ?

[Hugh]

What years during those 22 years in the Navy did you serve ?

1962 t0 1984     

In truth, you have never been effected by Thatcherism, have you ?

Quite true and just how many times before have I said when M. Thatcher and the conservative party came to power they gave us a 40% pay rise just to catch up. She didn't Sh!! on us like Wilson's labour party who was allowing large pay rise to the coal field workers and bragging pay rises were kept to 8% while dishing out 1% to the forces. I did have a wife and children to support and taxes to pay like every one else. You may have reasons to hate M.Thatcher I haven't. Sorry but that's the way it is.

[John Sheffield]

-1980 pension index link broken to enable low taxation/NI for baby boomers, aged 30ish
-2010 baby boomers want  the link restoring paid by higher taxation/NI ,aged 65is
Your posting J. S.  Just goes to prove how much you know, absolute zilch.

Ivanhoe, What a strange post. You have listed 2 historical facts which I posted. I'm sure you don't dispute those facts, but you follow on stating that 'I don't know zilch'. The index link was broken in 1980 and now the boomers want it restoring. Please don't tell me facts about 2010 aren't historical.

Papa,  You don't get it do you. My whole point when starting this thread was to point out that the historical and present behaviour of YOUR generation displays selfishness and a desire to increase the wealth of your demographic at the expense of others. The victims in the 80s and 90s were older pensioners, my generation are the victims now. This pattern of selfish behaviour over the last 30 years has been well documented in literature.

Your generation owes the older pensioners an apology and should stop blackmailing Governments into increasing your wealth at the expence of young families.

[Ivanhoe]

J/S.  Some facts.

Means testing pensioners is costing excessively more of income tax payers money that the restoration of the earnings link would cost.

Also this campaign to secure State pensions will increase with inflation or earnings will benefit young people when they grow old, if only they could see it.

I personally have been involved in this campaign for over 20 years, what have you been doing aside from splitting hairs ?

[Papaumau]

Mr Sheffield said:

Papa,  You don't get it do you. My whole point when starting this thread was to point out that the historical and present behaviour of YOUR generation displays selfishness and a desire to increase the wealth of your demographic at the expense of others. The victims in the 80s and 90s were older pensioners, my generation are the victims now. This pattern of selfish behaviour over the last 30 years has been well documented in literature.

Your generation owes the older pensioners an apology and should stop blackmailing Governments into increasing your wealth at the expence of young families.

And I say that digging out "the boomers" as selfish just because they just happened to be the people who got hit the hardest when Thatcher, ( the witch ), decided to disconnect the state pension ratio from the Average wage is silly at best and dishonest at worst.

EVERYBODY that came after this time suffered because Thatcher decided to save a few bob by reducing what pensioners get from the state.

EVERYBODY that cared about this disgusting action has tried to get the plan reversed since then and even if the New-Labourites admitted that it was wrong to break this connection to the average wage they too did not do anything about it.

Now we see the state pension eroded so badly over that twenty years or so that Britain has the lowest state pension in modern Europe.

Can you, in ANY argument, say that that is right for ANYBODY for ANY reason ?

If you can then you should not be writing to this "PENSIONERS" forum.

[John Sheffield]

Papa
You  honestly think that the boomers were the hardest hit generation when the tories broke the pension-index link. You really couldn't make this stuff up.! You really are blind to the way other generations, young and old, have suffered in order to increase the wealth of yours.

Please do your maths . The average boomer (born say 1950) was 30 years of age in 1980. 30/35 years away from drawing their state pension.  Breaking the index link and other 1980s tory cuts meant that NI  and income tax contributions for baby boomers could be kept low.  They needed to do this to secure your generations massive voting block.

Shamefully the generation  that suffered in order to keep your NI contributions low was the WW2 generation. That's right, a 25 year old Squaddy, Airman or Matelot in 1940 hit 65 years of age in 1980. Their reward from your generation, a gradual degrading of their state pension for 30 years.

Now  30 years later when the boot is on the other foot, your generation has about turned. Now you cry that the pension is too low, it should be re-linked. You shout for a 'local income tax' to replace the council tax, just when you retire. You cry for social care to be paid via taxation, after allowing thousand of pensioners to sell their homes in the 1980s and 90s to pay for theirs ( my grandmother-for one). In the Oxford dictionary for hypocrisy it should read 'the baby boomers'.

Thankfully now older pensioners  will no longer be the victims of your greed. They will actually benefit from it. The victims now of course are working families and children.

PS by the way its not polite to ask others not to post just because their opinions differ from yours. This is not the Papau Forum.

[Hugh]

I am not going to join in, and blame the labour party for being so stupid in allowing the coal field workers union to bully them. Inflation was running at around 20% the coal field workers were given huge pay rises to to keep their standard of living. Poor old joe blogs like me were wondering how to make ends meet. What was so stupid  no body wanted British coal because it was to bloody exspensive. They brought down the labour party and bragged they could do the same with M Thatcher. They created such a large stock pile of coal in uk they couldn't get suport for the forcoming strike action from their mates abroad. So the coal field workers were dragged into strike action with out even asking the Notts workers. A strike they could not be allowed to win.
Cut backs had to be made to sort out the mess the country was in and pensions was one of the cut backs. She had to stop powerful unions from wrecking the country with strike action for more and more pay. Inflation peaked in 1980 at 20%.
We should be thanking M Thatcher for the work she did not blaming her. She allowed pay rise for people to suffered during those years of strike action. When Blair came to power he didn't have the problems M Thatcher had and could have if he wished help pensions but he didn't SO BLAME HIM NOT M THATCHER 

[Papaumau]

Hugh......

The only people who got pay-rises at that time were the police and the army as Thatcher knew that if the country went on a total revolt she would need the police and the army to keep her and her Tories safe.

I think  - for some strange reason - a certain group of English people have a very skewed idea about Thatcher and we have to come North of the border to find out what the people really think of her and hers. We here in Scotland know VERY well that she killed off our heavy engineering, our shipbuilding, our steelworks and our mines and pits just so that she could show that she could do it.

After her final insult to the Scottish people of forcing the poll tax onto us she caused massive riots here AND in England and she and her Tories were wiped out in Scotland. Even now the Tories here only have ONE miserable member of the English parliament.

I sometimes think that the English folk have very short memories and the likes of Hugh only remembers what Thatcher did for him as a serviceman.

Mr Sheffield.....

I cannot image why you should have your knife in the back of the baby-boomers as they are only a small portion of the British people that the Tories have used and abused over the years.

The people that I care about and HAVE cared about since the late forties has been the weak and the poor and the sick of this country and apart from having a go at the selfish fools who voted Tory in those fifty-odd years I am not prepared to blame any sections of the ordinary people of Britain during those times.

As I see it many/most of the strong and the rich get stronger and richer at the expense of the weak and the poor and so long as we have a bunch of selfish Tories in charge of things, that situation will STAY.

I think that many of the people in Britain need to think about it and take a stand about who they might want to support: The strong and the rich, or the weak and the poor !

That is a no-brainer as far as I am concerned !

[Hugh]

And why the hell shouldn't I thinking of me the the bloody strong union members only thought of them selves grabbing large pay after pay rises. While us with no union got nothing. Thatcher gave us a pay rise to catch up and no more. I knew a lot of coal field workers only went to work at weekends at over time rates only how they got a way with it I don't know.
Coal mines were closed because the requirement for coal wasn't there any more. I was also bitter about Thatcher when I left the forces all X coal field workers were put to the front of the queue when it came to jobs. Employer were encouraged to do so. I got what was left over security night shifts at £2.50 hour.
British workers just cannot see you have produces good at a cheaper rate and at an high standard than abroad or the industries in UK will never recover.

What a very stupid remark Papa she only gave us a pay rises in case the country went into revolt. We have to do what we were told, pay rise or no pay rise. We would have no choice in the matter.

[Papaumau]

And why the hell shouldn't I thinking of me the the bloody strong union members only thought of them selves grabbing large pay after pay rises. While us with no union got nothing. Thatcher gave us a pay rise to catch up and no more. I knew a lot of coal field workers only went to work at weekends at over time rates only how they got a way with it I don't know.
Coal mines were closed because the requirement for coal wasn't there any more. I was also bitter about Thatcher when I left the forces all X coal field workers were put to the front of the queue when it came to jobs. Employer were encouraged to do so. I got what was left over security night shifts at £2.50 hour.
British workers just cannot see you have produces good at a cheaper rate and at an high standard than abroad or the industries in UK will never recover.

What a very stupid remark Papa she only gave us a pay rises in case the country went into revolt. We have to do what we were told, pay rise or no pay rise. We would have no choice in the matter.

I honestly cannot imagine where you get the idea that the miners got pay-rise after pay-rise. They struck twice during the late seventies and the early eighties and the first time they struck  - even although they got very little out of it - they did bring down the Callaghan government. When they tried to stand up for their jobs during the Thatcher reign they were destroyed and all of the pits in Britain were shut down, throwing thousands of hard-working miners and their families into destitution.

As I said before, a short memory is a dangerous memory !

Yes, the police and the army have to do what they are told....BUT...Thatcher STILL wanted them to serve her needs with willingness. More of the selfish and carenought greed that can simply be bought.

Selfishness and personal greed among her supporters are the qualities that Thatcher and her Tories have always depended upon to keep her in power and her people in the money. Anybody that thinks anything else is kidding themselves on.

If the people of Britain had had the courage and the strong desire for fairness that the French people have the greedy and carenought Tories would not have survived for very long.

Sadly we - the ordinary British people, coupled with our short memories and our ability to take abuse - are just not militant enough to get the fairness that we deserve and need from government.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau.  Well put.  Superbly observed.