Is David Miliband a traitor to his roots ?

[Papaumau]

As the Labour leadership election heats up we are seeing just where many of the candidates stand. The two Miliband brothers have swerved off to the right and the left looking for support and it seems that David Miliband has insulted the values that his late Marxist father tried to impart to him.

Ed Miliband has stood squarely behind a return to the more leftist values and by doing this he has upheld many of the desires of his famous dad.

See THIS
And THIS

As I said elsewhere, it appears that many - if not all - of the young Labour activists are supporting Ed Miliband and his need to take the Labour party back to true Labour values while David Milband is just advocating "more of the same" with Blair's so-called "progressive", ( read "Toryesque" ), policies.

I have to ask.......If  any of you were to be forced to make a choice between David Miliband and Ed Miliband for the Labour leadersip, would you choose more of the same Blairite policies by supporting David or do you think that Labour has lost it's way and now needs to re-examine it's roots under Ed Miliband as leader.

Please do not take the obvious and easy way out by saying neither of them.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, After almost 30 years of right wing Torysm in this country, Thatcher / Major, Blair and Brown, Britain is so void of common decency and fairness now, we all desperatelly need a return to the Social and economic fairness that only "traditional" Labour can bring.

I will vote for and support whomever has the guts to wade through the media garbage and say it in one " I will take Labour back to it's core values".

Not one of the candidates has said this yet, because they have'nt the guts, they are frightened of the media.

[Papaumau]

Yes Ivanhoe, they ARE keeping a fairly low public profile at the moment as they want to attract as many people to their individual campaigns as they can without alienating others.

As the contest heats up we WILL see where they all stand as the hustings manifesto of each of the candidates will have to be pushed in order to inform the faithful of what direction each of them wish to go.

Until then it is easy to find out the history of each of the candidates by doing a name search on GOOGLE

[Ivanhoe]

//////Yes Ivanhoe, they ARE keeping a fairly low public profile at the moment as they want to attract as many people to their individual campaigns as they can without alienating others.//////

And this is exactly what's wrong with political parties today, there is no integrity, no up front honesty, just a bunch of rich public school boys swimming with the breeze, hoping for voters and any cost, and it's just not good enough.

[Papaumau]

Yes that is the way of that particular beast I am afraid.

Mind you, they are not all "rich public school boys" even if many of them are in it to get on in life.

When it all comes down to it they HAVE TO state where they stand in the great scheme of things if they are to attract the demograhic that they are looking to attract. Eventually they know that they will be held to book for promises they might make in any manifesto that they publish before any election.

It is up to us to find out what they really stand for and vote accordingly. If we do not do this then we get exactly the people that we deserve.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, We already have the politicians we deserve.  It is all too late im afraid, and I truly believe that.

[Papaumau]

Sorry Ivanhoe, but that is far too defeatist for me to swallow.

I guess it is all about education, where the people are educated in the right way to go about getting what they want and they are encouraged to put a bit of thought into their selections.

One of the few things that comes with age that is good is WISDOM !

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, As stated to you before, after 20 years, a man get weary of trying, he gets dissolutioned, he gets angry, and demeaned.

When I first started I was just like you in mind and spirit, believe me I was, but now in beginning to "not give a damn".

[BillB]

Papaumau Ivanhoe, 
                                Two things strike me reading your comments on the leadership of the L.P.
 First we now have a parliamentry party of middle class well educated careerists that would sit in any of the three major parties and feel at home.
At the same time these people namely the five candidates for the leadership when asked are they socialists gave the most pathetic responces I have ever heard.
The answers given by the two Millibands were a disgrace considering that they are sons of one of the leading marxist thinkers of our time. We are being offered no choice.
 Only one person that could have put an alternative was John MacDonnell he fail to get enough support.
This is the state of the L.P. Lost our way is an understatement, we have been wiped clean of any vestage of socialist thinking.
Second  Any change that will take place in the L.P. must be from the bottom up.
The New Labour cleek de-democratised the party. They centralised policy making, controlled money and totally controlled the selection of M.P.s with a few exceptions, and sidelined the Trade Unions.

My attitude is to stay in and fight for socialist policies after leaving for a long time when Blare became leader. I have come to the conclusion that with all it's weakness and failings while the trade unions support it. It is the only viable party around that can Begin to represent working class people, however badly. So if you are a socialist outside you will be watching the struggle for the soul of the party.
Inside you will be helping to change it. BillB

[Ivanhoe]

BillB, Superb observations.
 
It is believed that Ed Milliband wants to return to core Labour values, what say you ?
 

[Papaumau]

Papaumau, As stated to you before, after 20 years, a man get weary of trying, he gets dissolutioned, he gets angry, and demeaned.

When I first started I was just like you in mind and spirit, believe me I was, but now in beginning to "not give a damn".

And I am actually OLDER than you !

I am not disillusioned and I cannot see the time when I will be !

[Ivanhoe]

//////And I am actually OLDER than you !/////

Your age is neither here nor there, it's how long you have been involved with this cause that counts.

[Papaumau]

Papaumau Ivanhoe, 
                                Two things strike me reading your comments on the leadership of the L.P.
 First we now have a parliamentry party of middle class well educated careerists that would sit in any of the three major parties and feel at home.
At the same time these people namely the five candidates for the leadership when asked are they socialists gave the most pathetic responces I have ever heard.
The answers given by the two Millibands were a disgrace considering that they are sons of one of the leading marxist thinkers of our time. We are being offered no choice.
 Only one person that could have put an alternative was John MacDonnell he fail to get enough support.
This is the state of the L.P. Lost our way is an understatement, we have been wiped clean of any vestage of socialist thinking.
Second  Any change that will take place in the L.P. must be from the bottom up.
The New Labour cleek de-democratised the party. They centralised policy making, controlled money and totally controlled the selection of M.P.s with a few exceptions, and sidelined the Trade Unions.

My attitude is to stay in and fight for socialist policies after leaving for a long time when Blare became leader. I have come to the conclusion that with all it's weakness and failings while the trade unions support it. It is the only viable party around that can Begin to represent working class people, however badly. So if you are a socialist outside you will be watching the struggle for the soul of the party.
Inside you will be helping to change it. BillB

Sadly BillB, you are right that many of today's politicians in all of the parties are what you call "career politicians" and these people will do what they are directed to do by their party whips.

In the Labour Party in particular the Blairist vision made it so that the "S" word was anathema to what he was trying to do and because of this direction the "Socialism" word became unrepresentative of Blair's rightist agenda.

Now that we are into a new term of government the candidates for the leadership of the Labour party are free to talk about moving back to the Labour Party roots.

I did already say that David Miliband was a traitor to his father's values and that Ed Miliband was unafraid to say that "Labour" needed a new direction if it is to bring back it's core supporters to the fold.

I guess that we have to trust politicans to do what they say they are going to do when they are out of power, but in many cases once they get back into power it is the ones that direct the whips that can dictate what direction any new government might take.

[BillB]

Trust is very rare commodity these days in political leaders as the Lib/Dems experience shows. We can only hope that whoever becomes leader does move the party to the left, but and it is a big but, the membership must have greater policy controll. That is why many of us are campaigning for greater democracy within the party.
Whoever the leader is. Working class people will have a gigantic battle with the ConDems cuts.I only hope that the leadership will lead the struggle inside and outside of parliament. BillB

[Papaumau]

Me too BillB !

David Miliband is the brother that is getting the most support in the leadership race by the, ( strangely ), left-wing press - including my own tabloid, The Scottish Daily Record. ( I plan to write a letter to this point ). Because of this I fear that the New-Labourites still hiding in the party - including D. Miliband - will hit us with just more of the same instead of taking a radical direction-change.

I am hoping that the grass roots of the party in and out of Westminster will recognise that New-Labour is now a "busted flush" and because of this that they will now redirect their allegiance to Ed Miliband rather than to Blairist-brother David.

I guess we are just going to have to wait and see how this one plays out !