Author Topic: RETURNING TO UK  (Read 8016 times)

richmond62

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #30 on: Nov 23, 2019, 07:54:17 PM »
I would not characterise the European Union as an 'evil empire.'

Alex22

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #31 on: Nov 23, 2019, 08:05:32 PM »
I would not characterise the European Union as an 'evil empire.'
How about a federalist monster then  ?     ;D
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richmond62

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #32 on: Nov 23, 2019, 08:10:54 PM »
Well a federal system might be the "answer" to Britain and its constituent countries' woes.

Why would you characterise a federal system as a monster?

Certainly the Federal USA seems neither better nor worse than a lot of other places.

zoony

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #33 on: Nov 23, 2019, 08:27:33 PM »
In the US, like most places, standard of living is totally dependent on income but few places are crueler to be poor in.
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

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richmond62

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #34 on: Nov 23, 2019, 08:42:53 PM »
Yes, my son, who lives in Los Angeles say that the discrepancy between rich and poor really sickens him.

But I don't think that has much to do with the fact that their system is federal; but it has a lot to do with
their having a totally inadequate social support system and healthcare system.

zoony

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #35 on: Nov 23, 2019, 08:59:06 PM »
I think it comes from having a rabidly capitalist society and mentality. If it can't be monetised it's pointless.
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

                                           cowboy wisdom.

Akbuk

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #36 on: Aug 17, 2021, 03:08:08 PM »
Just mulling through this thread.
A comparison of the US & the EU when it comes to Federalism IMO is like chalk and cheese.
One language in the US, several in the EU. One currency in the US, several in the EU.
It’s firmly in Americans minds where Government Sits, Washington. I don’t think that as yet, Brussels has reached that pinnacle for EU citizens or anywhere near it.
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xetog

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #37 on: Aug 17, 2021, 05:56:06 PM »
Surely a federal nation is one where the individual states wish to express unity, but retain their independence in most matters relating to internal affairs.  There is of course the necessity to recognise that the federal government will have the powers to decide on various overarching matters (defence, welfare, fiscal policy, etc) but only insofar as it bears on matters that affect all states jointly.  To function, a system of state dependent collective governance is required and the states must have the power to offset decisions made by central government which is itself democratically elected  This is all present in the USA, but even so it functions far from perfectly.  The USA started small with just a few states opting for a federal system as a means of self preservation and as the states developed to the west & south into what they considered vacant land. Conversion from a territory to statehood was considered a great prize, as anyone who has seen Oklahoma will understand.  Even so many states have at various times declared a desire to "Secede from the union" over some issue or another,


The EU consists of nation states with several millennia of traditions of independence behind them.  When the EU was created only the creators knew that any more than a trading bloc was envisaged.  It took many years of gradual tweaking behind the scenes and encouragement of fifth columns and dubious, mis-sold treaties to create a body that clearly wishes to subsume the history and cultures of its members into a bloc only paying scant attention to representation by democratic means, but creating an unelected leadership  open only to ex national leaders who cooperate with the ethos and means of the central authoritarian state control.  The member states, beyond trade have little, if any commonality of purpose, some have intense dislike for others. This is not federalism.


The Russian system was fundamentally a Communist party dictatorship with more in common with the EU than the USA.


It has been suggested that the UK could function as a federation, but as in the EU the disparity of wealth and population numbers would discriminate against equality in the wider sense.


Mike.X



If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

richmond62

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #38 on: Aug 17, 2021, 06:51:17 PM »
The only problem I have with the E.U. is how they let countries inwith it, such as Bulgaria where I stay,
get away with nicking EU grants when it is so obviously highly corrupt.

Akbuk

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #39 on: Sep 25, 2021, 10:37:18 PM »
The only problem I have with the E.U. is how they let countries inwith it, such as Bulgaria where I stay,
get away with nicking EU grants when it is so obviously highly corrupt.


I think what the likes of Bulgaria does is the tip of the iceberg. I’d be
more interested in what’s happening inside Brussels itself. That’s where big business deals with the big politicians.They spend millions each year persuading politicians to do their bidding, exactly like they do in the  US.
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zoony

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Re: RETURNING TO UK
« Reply #40 on: Sep 25, 2021, 11:51:25 PM »
That's the nail and you hit it Akbuk. The United States of Europe. But fruition rarely matches ambition.
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

                                           cowboy wisdom.