Indefinite AIP - recovery from estate query

[KCW]

My mother unfortunately passed away in August at the age of ninety two. The last time she was assessed for benefits was in March 2004, when she was awarded Guaranteed Pension Credit, Savings Credit, Severe Disability, Attendance Allowance, plus Housing Benefit. At that time she was eighty years of age and therefore we assume she was on the Indefinite AIP, as no further assessments were carried out from 2004 to 2016 when she passed. She was a very honest person, and also a great worrier, therefore we believe that the original assessment would have been based on correct details she provided regarding her financial situation.    
Immediately upon obtaining a death certificate we informed the DWP and they confirmed that her benefits were stopped and all was in order. Subsequent however to obtaining the Letter of Representation we have received a notification from the Recovery from Estates department that they wish to review her case. This will no doubt be as she left a significant amount in her current account. I realise this is common practice by this department but understand that, as long as the initial assessment was correct, they cannot claim over-payment due to the increase in her capital in the period between then and her death.  
My question is: Am I correct in believing this to be the case? I have carried out much research but can't find anywhere an unequivocal confirmation. The single reason her capital has increased is due to her concern about not wanting to end up in a home as her disabilities worsened. Therefore she lived very frugally and kept as much of her benefits as possible, in the hope that she could avoid the same fate as her own mother. During the last three years she has been housebound and had to pay for a carer twice a day, but then after a fall earlier this year she was confined to her bed and an armchair, with two carers coming in four times a day to move her by hoist between the two; at a cost of more than two thousand pounds a month.  
Many thanks to those who run and contribute to this much-appreciated site  

[cheddar-caveman]

Firstly, a big welcome KCW.
We are not an advisory forum, just a group of older citizens who like to chat and exchange experiences. There maybe someone on here who has experience in this subject but we usually advise that you contact the CAB for professional advice in such matters.
I hope you can get answers.

[KCW]

Firstly, a big welcome KCW.
We are not an advisory forum, just a group of older citizens who like to chat and exchange experiences. There maybe someone on here who has experience in this subject but we usually advise that you contact the CAB for professional advice in such matters.
I hope you can get answers.

Many thanks for the welcome.

[Phil]

Hi KCW,

You need to know if your Mum was on Indefinite AIP as opposed to assuming she was just because of her age.

The DWP will investigate any case where they need to ensure that the correct payments have been made & there are certain flags that will generate an investigation such as a person having more assets than would be deemed reasonable for their declared circumstances.

HMRC do exactly the same thing as do the Proceeds of Crime recovery teams.

Your Mum was paid money from public funds & it's only right for the taxpayer to know that it was paid correctly.

If everything's in order then no action can or will be taken.

[KCW]

Hi KCW, You need to know if your Mum was on Indefinite AIP as opposed to assuming she was just because of her age. The DWP will investigate any case where they need to ensure that the correct payments have been made & there are certain flags that will generate an investigation such as a person having more assets than would be deemed reasonable for their declared circumstances. HMRC do exactly the same thing as do the Proceeds of Crime recovery teams. Your Mum was paid money from public funds & it's only right for the taxpayer to know that it was paid correctly. If everything's in order then no action can or will be taken.

Thanks for your response Phil.


My assumption that she was most likely on an Indefinite AIP is due to her not being reassessed during the 12 years since the initial assessment. Plus this extract quoting a response by the DWP to FOI 636/2014 "If a customer is aged 75 or over when the assessed income period is set, it will be set indefinitely – so it will not end automatically after five years."


As a substantial taxpayer during my working life I agree that benefit claimants should get no more than they are entitled to. In my mother's situation [assuming that she was on an Indefinite AIP and the initial assessment was correct] I am merely trying to establish what the ROE's mandate is in reviewing the case. On another forum I have read that, in a similar case, they merely checked that the initial assessment was correct and were not concerned that the person had substantial savings when she passed. In another case the poster claimed "you could win the lottery when on an Indefinite AIP and the DWP would not be concerned, as long as the initial assessment was correct." On the contrary, I have read other comments that claim that the ROE demanded financial information going back to 2003/4 and subsequently demanded repayment of some means-tested benefits; even though there were no records to substantiate their claim and the person was on an Indefinite AIP. As the banks generally only keep account archives for six years this would be impossible to provide; unless the deceased had personal records going back that far.


As I recall, my mother did not initiate any claims for benefits. The DWP initiated the process when switching from the MIG system, and simply informed mum of what she was due in her condition. They subsequently wrote to her once a year confirming any changes due to Government increases, never once suggesting that a reassessment was required. As I mentioned in the previous post, all my mother was doing was using the benefits awarded in a way that suited her future the best. She had a very difficult life and had been repeatedly saying over the past 3/4 years that she didn't want to live anymore ... we are sad at her passing but relieved that the torrid period has ended and that she was able, through savings, to avoid the indignity of going into a care home; as she viewed it.


Researching on the Internet has it's pros and cons, and one can never be sure of the integrity of those who post nor the validity of what they write. I would just like to get confirmation of what the rules and correct procedure is in order to attempt to expedite this as quickly as possible, to save my sister [the executor] from as much stress as possible; she is having a very difficult year all round.

[Granny49]

Good morning KCW and welcome to PF.  As CC says, we don't have anyone who is currently working with benefits on the site but we do have years of accumulated knowledge

consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forums/ does have some people currently working in these areas so it may be worth trying.  You do get the usual opinions as well.  Good luck with this.  I find the benefits system rather opaque when all people want to know are the rules   Please come back and let us know how you get on.

[KCW]

Good morning KCW and welcome to PF.  As CC says, we don't have anyone who is currently working with benefits on the site but we do have years of accumulated knowledge

consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forums/ does have some people currently working in these areas so it may be worth trying.  You do get the usual opinions as well.  Good luck with this.  I find the benefits system rather opaque when all people want to know are the rules   Please come back and let us know how you get on.

Thank you Granny49, I will try them.

[Phil]

Thanks for your response Phil.

My assumption that she was most likely on an Indefinite AIP is due to her not being reassessed during the 12 years since the initial assessment. Plus this extract quoting a response by the DWP to FOI 636/2014 "If a customer is aged 75 or over when the assessed income period is set, it will be set indefinitely – so it will not end automatically after five years."

As a substantial taxpayer during my working life I agree that benefit claimants should get no more than they are entitled to. In my mother's situation [assuming that she was on an Indefinite AIP and the initial assessment was correct] I am merely trying to establish what the ROE's mandate is in reviewing the case. On another forum I have read that, in a similar case, they merely checked that the initial assessment was correct and were not concerned that the person had substantial savings when she passed. In another case the poster claimed "you could win the lottery when on an Indefinite AIP and the DWP would not be concerned, as long as the initial assessment was correct." On the contrary, I have read other comments that claim that the ROE demanded financial information going back to 2003/4 and subsequently demanded repayment of some means-tested benefits; even though there were no records to substantiate their claim and the person was on an Indefinite AIP. As the banks generally only keep account archives for six years this would be impossible to provide; unless the deceased had personal records going back that far.

As I recall, my mother did not initiate any claims for benefits. The DWP initiated the process when switching from the MIG system, and simply informed mum of what she was due in her condition. They subsequently wrote to her once a year confirming any changes due to Government increases, never once suggesting that a reassessment was required. As I mentioned in the previous post, all my mother was doing was using the benefits awarded in a way that suited her future the best. She had a very difficult life and had been repeatedly saying over the past 3/4 years that she didn't want to live anymore ... we are sad at her passing but relieved that the torrid period has ended and that she was able, through savings, to avoid the indignity of going into a care home; as she viewed it.

Researching on the Internet has it's pros and cons, and one can never be sure of the integrity of those who post nor the validity of what they write. I would just like to get confirmation of what the rules and correct procedure is in order to attempt to expedite this as quickly as possible, to save my sister [the executor] from as much stress as possible; she is having a very difficult year all round.

Before any agency can give you advice specific to your Mum's case you need to establish the following:

Was your Mum definitely on Indefiinite AIP & if so then what termination date was attached to the AIP.

This termination date is important as it determines what she was required to report to the DWP.

I suggest that you contact the DWP by email or phone & ask them to give you a full explanation of your Mum's case.

http://customerservicecontactnumber.uk/dwp/

[KCW]

Before any agency can give you advice specific to your Mum's case you need to establish the following:

Was your Mum definitely on Indefiinite AIP & if so then what termination date was attached to the AIP.

This termination date is important as it determines what she was required to report to the DWP.

I suggest that you contact the DWP by email or phone & ask them to give you a full explanation of your Mum's case.

Thanks Phil

[KCW]

I find the benefits system rather opaque when all people want to know are the rules   Please come back and let us know how you get on.

My sister and I are pleased, and relieved, that in this instance Recovery From Estates Dept Management have been both transparent and timely, in processing their enquiry into my mother's financial affairs.


On Monday my sister [the executor] received a letter which concluded the matter.


Quote:


"Based on the information provided we have compared the assets in the estate with departmental records and confirm that these assets were correctly taken into account.


This concludes our enquiry


Thank you for your co-operation in this matter"

   


During a telephone conversation they confirmed that a person aged seventy-five years of age [or older] when assessed would have automatically been put on an Indefinite AIP. There have been many changes in the way some benefits are assessed and allocated this year, but anyone already on an Indefinite AIP will apparently remain on it until terminated by a change in status or their demise. As long as the assessment is based on accurate information being provided, a persons financial status appears to be of no consequence. Benefits are granted on the basis of a persons situation and it is left to them to use them as best suits their position; as my mother did.