Limiting Unskilled Migrants

[StephenM123]

Yes I am in favour of this:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41172505

 I am fed up with the workshy being paid benefits whilst unskilled migrants are being pasid the job they could be doing. Also when they come over they need accommodation, health services and schooling for their offspring. Near us there are two families with four and six children respectively yet only one adult in each household works and then only part-time (probably just enough to avoid benefit cuts). Also in areas like Lincolnshire locals cannot even get a look in at seasonal work as job agencies/gang masters have tied it all up.
 
 
 We also need to get more young people learning a trade rather than going to university and getting a useless qualification and debts. The target should probably be around 25% not 50%. While at it the Stephen Party would give grants to people studying useful subjects like medicine, nursing, science, etc. on the understanding they pay it all back if they do not work in this country for seven years after qualifying.
 
Vote Stephen!

[zoony]

Seconded!

[Alex22]

"  Stephen Party would give grants to people studying useful subjects like medicine, nursing, science, etc. on the understanding they pay it all back if they do not work in this country for seven years after qualifying.  "

  I'd certainly vote for you Stephen

[GrannyMac]

Lots of sense Stephen. You'd get my vote!

[Scrumpy]

 You have my vote also .

[Ashy]

You have my vote but I bet your party is not standing here. Mores the pity

[BazzerPontefract]

Stephen,
This should really be in the politics section...
But seriously, I agree with the bulk of what you say, but disagree with your final sentence on under-graduate grants in specific subject areas,
Nurses, until recently got grants for first degree study.  But large numbers, didn't even complete the nursing course (drop out rates with nurse trainees were far higher than other non-nursing degrees), didn't once they graduated go into nursing, didn't once they started nursing continue with nursing.  The got an education, free, and then walked away from the profession.  Why, I have to ask you, would you think nurses should be treated any better than other graduates.  I don't think nurses special, they do a job like the rest of us, and they should take on the responsibilities of doing that job.  If you really want to treat nurses as a special case then you should make them pay fees, but front load the salaries so when they engaged with proper nursing they got paid slightly more, so their fees were covered by, say, 10 years of front loaded salaries.
Doctors actually pay for their first degree, but all post graduate study is free.  So many doctors will get three, four or five years of post graduate training free.  Why, I have to ask you, should a Doctor be treated different to a Physicist?
As for STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths) under-graduates should they be treated better than, say, an Accounting or Law undergraduates. I see no justification.
There is a problem, I have to admit, with under-graduate students who're taking first degree courses for professions where they'll never hit the earning threshold to pay back their fees - media studies, golf green management, this could be stopped by reducing the number of courses.
There are also large numbers of Humanities subjects where funding or course availability should not be altered.  Undergrads studying English, say, should still have plenty of course choice - graduates in Humanities from about the best 80 universities will be in demand by commerce and industry and the vast majority will earn enough to pay back their loans and build a nest-egg for the future.  The vast majority of graduates of the best universities do not go hungry.  There is nothing wrong with rigorous Humanities Courses.  And even with grade inflation, most HR teams know the difference between a 2.1 from Nottingham and a 2.1 from Nottingham Trent.
There is a problem with the sheer number of universities, the sheer number of soft-option courses, and something should be done about that.


There is much to commend in your manifesto, but a good deal to disagree with.

[brian54]

I have no problem with immigrants if they are coming to contribute to society and to self improve.
Some discretion is however needed.
I know somebody who had difficulty in joining their 2 nurse daughters in Australia when they retired even though they had good pensions, It took about a year before they were allowed in.
I don't think this situation should be allowed to happen in the UK.

[GrannyMac]

Bazzer, I take your word about the number of nurse students dropping out, and the number of graduate nurses choosing a different career. I didn't know that to be the case.

However, both my children have degrees.  My son, normal path, BA in a maths related subject, then a Masters.  When he was at uni, he had lots of free time to pursue his sporting interests, and other leisure time.

My daughters nursing qualifications were more hard won. She initially studied to diploma level, after qualifying started working as a nurse, then did the extra study years later when it became evident a degree would be necessary for her career.  However, unlike most other undergrads, nursing students are expected to work in hospitals; work shifts; they get fewer holidays than other students. Perhaps an apprenticeship scheme for nurses would be fairer?   

[cheddar-caveman]

In days gone by all nurses trained through what was basically an apprenticeship scheme where they simply joined a hospital as a trainee nurse. They started at the bottom of the ladder, doing the menial tasks, ward cleaning, bed pans, bed making etc. but at the same time watching and learning. Both my sister and first wife went through this at St Georges Hospital, London and both ended near the top of the list as ward sisters. There was very little classroom stuff, it was all hands on and I personally believe this made for a far better nurse.
Today there are far too many layers of non medical staff in the hospital hierarchy! No wonder they are all in financial difficulties.

Totally agree with limiting the thousands of unskilled workers flooding into our country when we are paying 1.4 million of our own citizens to do nothing! Get them into the fields while waiting for full time employment, make them earn their dole or whatever fancy name they give it today!
 

[sparky]

CC. Yes much the better way to learn your craft, getting your hands dirty on the job.
IMO this does not only apply to nursing, we have many supposed experts in senior positions in many fields, who have paper qualifications coming out their ears, but not a grain of common sense, who I am sure you will have met have met, just as I have.

[brian54]

Nurses are a bit more specialised these days. Both my daughters deal with cancer, They have never worked in A & E.
Oddly they both have a First Aid Certificate. They do not do things like tie slings etc at work.
I was a first aider at work. I was never called to an incident at work as they always happened when I was not there. I have dealt with several incidents on the street.
I renew my knowledge every 12 to 18 months by doing a basic First Aid Course.

[sparky]

Brian, I reckon your workmates knew a thing or two, and were extra careful when you were there,  scared of being left to the mercy of not only your treatment, but the lecture on money saving tips and pensions.
 

[Phil]

Bazzer, I take your word about the number of nurse students dropping out, and the number of graduate nurses choosing a different career. I didn't know that to be the case.

However, both my children have degrees.  My son, normal path, BA in a maths related subject, then a Masters.  When he was at uni, he had lots of free time to pursue his sporting interests, and other leisure time.

My daughters nursing qualifications were more hard won. She initially studied to diploma level, after qualifying started working as a nurse, then did the extra study years later when it became evident a degree would be necessary for her career.  However, unlike most other undergrads, nursing students are expected to work in hospitals; work shifts; they get fewer holidays than other students. Perhaps an apprenticeship scheme for nurses would be fairer?

I totally agree.

My elder daughter did a degree in nursing & whilst her university media studies pals were in the students' bar, my daughter was hammering up the A38 to do a night shift at Torbay Hospital.

But back to the subject of immigration I despair at living in a country where any Minister who has the temerity to attempt to regulate immigration & to suggest that British workers get the first chance at doing British jobs, is vilified by the social engineering hand-wringing liberals who are little better than modern-day 5th columnists.

[cheddar-caveman]

Oddly they both have a First Aid Certificate. They do not do things like tie slings etc at work.

So what DO they do Brian? Part of a basic First Aid Certificate course is just that, learning how to tie a Support and Elevation sling, I'll explain the difference if you don't know, using a triangular bandage.

I renew my knowledge every 12 to 18 months by doing a basic First Aid Course.

With whom and where do you do this Brian? Just curious why you think you need it?