Author Topic: Time For A Second Referendum!  (Read 11825 times)

Undercover Pensioner

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #75 on: Feb 15, 2018, 04:32:44 PM »
We haven't left GrannyMac.  Not yet.  Even if we do leave do you think that will be the end?  Do you really believe democracy can thrive when it is based on lies and fantasy.  I doubt many will bother to watch this because, as some have said, you don't care any more but it is called "6 minutes of leave campaign lies".  That is what this vote was based on.  Even if we do come out that will never be forgiven.  If they find themselves and their families much poorer even those who swallowed the lies and voted to leave will realise how they have been exploited.  youtu.be/EBxWiRz6A9E
The vote for Brexit was a vote to take back what we hadn't lost in order to lose what we actually have.

Johned

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #76 on: Feb 15, 2018, 05:13:32 PM »
Sorry undercoverpensioner, I voted leave a.s.a.p and I have my reasons and definitely am no kind of extremist!

Coastal

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #77 on: Feb 15, 2018, 05:57:29 PM »
UP, sorry but what fight is that, we voted out and now is the hour, the only thing left to fight for is the best deal possible for the UK, save your money (and if all the doom and gloom merchants are to be believed you might need it) why can't you just accept the inevitable
Hell hath no fury like a woman .......

xetog

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #78 on: Feb 15, 2018, 06:07:43 PM »

No doubt some of the over-optimistic claims made prior to the referendum vote did influence the result of the referendum, but that effect worked both ways because many people understood the extraordinary doom laden prophecies laid out by the remain side with all their influence and power were gross distortions of fact, as they have proven to be.  But the fact that many people had irrevocably made up their minds long before either of the campaigns began and were not influenced by propaganda from either side, seems to have gone unremarked. 


Ordinary people were sick at both parties failed promises to hold a referendum and the only reason one was granted is because David Cameron realised that if he finally grant the public their wish he would returned as PM.  All the main parties at the time understood that there was an overwhelming desire for the British public to have their say.  UP, this piece you publish is simply more propaganda published by people who are becoming increasingly desperate that their minority view will not be realised.  They may convince some and the authors should be ashamed of playing into the hands of the rich and influential, but hopefully, the majority who see it will realise that it is a total, one sided distortion of the facts.


Mike. 8)

 
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

Alex22

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #79 on: Feb 15, 2018, 06:10:58 PM »
The remainers don't need any money, they've got the Hungarian George Soros backing them. 
.

xetog

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #80 on: Feb 15, 2018, 06:22:34 PM »

Alex, the rich elite must be laughing up their sleeves.  Britain leaving the EU would seriously disrupt the control they exercise over international affairs and if other nations were influenced to tread the same path, their power to distort the lives of ordinary people would be massively reduced.  All those who are currently being duped into supporting a second referendum are playing into the hands of the unaccountable minority.  Remain supports the status quo that has failed ordinary people for decades.  A vote for remain is to support greed, avarice and the subjugation of ordinary people and - I hesitate to say, -  I think even Jeremy Corben understands that.


Mike. 8)
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

GrannyMac

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #81 on: Feb 15, 2018, 07:01:53 PM »
We haven't left GrannyMac.  Not yet.  Even if we do leave do you think that will be the end?  Do you really believe democracy can thrive when it is based on lies and fantasy.  I doubt many will bother to watch this because, as some have said, you don't care any more but it is called "6 minutes of leave campaign lies".  That is what this vote was based on.  Even if we do come out that will never be forgiven.  If they find themselves and their families much poorer even those who swallowed the lies and voted to leave will realise how they have been exploited.  youtu.be/EBxWiRz6A9E


I know we haven't left, and nothing stays still.  Like I said, I've got to a stage now of wait and see. I voted to leave because I worried about the financial drain on countries like ours, France and Germany, bailing out Greece and other poor economies.   I've found things to like and dislike in the UK governments I've lived through, my experience is my own and has shaped my views, possibly as your life experiences have affected you. 
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.

R. Gervais

BazzerPontefract

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #82 on: Feb 15, 2018, 07:10:21 PM »
June 6th 2016, when we had the referendum, is a long time ago, I grant, and we've had a great deal of time since then to rehearse and re-rehearse the arguments, but still some people still don't grasp the essentials of the Leave or Remain cases.  Take this ridiculous statement.
1) "they find themselves and their families (simply) poorer, those who voted to Leave will realise how they have been misled."
Well of course they will.
Those that voted Leave voted to maintain their prosperity.  They, I hope, took the view that to Remain in the EU would lead to deterioration of the UK's levels of prosperity, making them poorer.  The EU being nothing more than an exercise is redistribution - the transfer of jobs, money, industry from the UK (and a couple of other EU countries) to the less well-off countries like Greece, Poland, and the Baltic states to name a few.
The thing for Leave voters is they expect to be worse off for Remaining, that's why they voted to Leave.

Contrast that with how Leave Voters will feel after having voted to Leave, Parliament decides we'll Remain, and their fears about their prosperity is realised - Remaining will see an acceleration in the transfer of Wealth from the Rich EU countries to the Poor EU countries - that's the EU's raison-d'etre, get it.

The thing about the Leave Argument is that it is plainly about selfish reasons - not sharing.
The thing about the Remain Argument is that it is plainly about sharing - it is an argument that says the Poor of Greece should be at least as well off as the Poor of the UK, it is about transferring wealth to the Poor of Southern Europe, the Poor of Eastern Europe, and the Poor of the Baltic states.  As well as opening the UK's doors to 2 million displaced persons milling around the mainland EU without a home.

Imagine how Remain voters will feel, should we Remain, and the EU encourage and fund the transfer of GM Car Production from Ellesmere Port to Ghadst, or Honda Car Production from Derby to Vilnius, or Nissan Car Production from Sunderland to Athens.  The EU did this with Transit Van Production in Luton to Poland and Credit Suisse jobs in Canary Whalf to Dublin.  Well they'll feel misled too, which demonstrates the ridiculousness of the statement above.

Ashy

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #83 on: Feb 15, 2018, 07:19:49 PM »
We need to get out of the eu as quickly as we can and get our industry going again.

Phil

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #84 on: Feb 15, 2018, 09:16:33 PM »
hi Phil, ive missed your er...em.... your good-looks
glad your back

I thought in your absence I'd keep some posts coming from nearly Doncaster.

 ;D
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

Undercover Pensioner

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #85 on: Feb 15, 2018, 10:38:28 PM »

I had got to wait and see too GM, until Boris made his speech yesterday.  David Aaronovitch wrote this in the Times today (and his was one of he kinder reviews):


"The speech began as if addressed to a skittish and anxious patient in need of reassurance. She’d got it into her silly little head that Brexit meant Britain turning its back on the world. Doctor Johnson reached into his big, soft bag and rummaged around. “Let’s see if we have something to help you,” he told her and us. And brought out a pack of old aspirations, a couple of hints of big things to come, a reference to the Babylonians and a used peroration."


He goes on to suggest that if this speech was supposed to be 'reaching out' (apparently that was the intention) he should had said something along the lines of the following:


Yes, I get it. I’ll be candid. It has all been far more complicated than many of us had believed. Yes, many of the assumptions we made — like David Davis’s — were simplistic and wildly optimistic. Some people have actually been rather ridiculous. And no, we may have miscalculated the negotiating priorities of the other EU members. And yes, the assessments from the Treasury, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, and the Bank of England are unlikely all to be wrong. We will indeed take a hit. It will take a long time and be a long haul before we begin to see any benefit from this. But the decision has been made and we must do the best we can with it, and make it to the nearest thing which you and I want to see (even if many of my more nationalist colleagues don’t) — an open, global society and economy. And we need you to help us with this.”


All I heard was denigration from our Foreign Secretary for half the population who also have a share in our democratic system and who are currently feeling they may have to fight for that before this is finished.
The vote for Brexit was a vote to take back what we hadn't lost in order to lose what we actually have.

Undercover Pensioner

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #86 on: Feb 15, 2018, 10:43:22 PM »
UP, sorry but what fight is that, we voted out and now is the hour, the only thing left to fight for is the best deal possible for the UK, save your money (and if all the doom and gloom merchants are to be believed you might need it) why can't you just accept the inevitable
It's hardly just me Coastal.  I'm just the one who bothers to come on here and put the other point of view.  It is always everyone's democratic right to go on trying to change things until it is no longer possible and then to start again - just as the leavers have in the past.  I think you answer your own question when you ask why I can't accept the inevitable - because, fairly obviously, until it happens it isn't and even if we leave we can make that the most painless leaving possible instead of jumping off a cliff.
The vote for Brexit was a vote to take back what we hadn't lost in order to lose what we actually have.

Undercover Pensioner

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #87 on: Feb 15, 2018, 10:47:16 PM »
We need to get out of the eu as quickly as we can and get our industry going again.

And how do you think that will happen Ashy?  Oh, is that using some of the money we were told we would have if we left but now discovered just won't be there?
The vote for Brexit was a vote to take back what we hadn't lost in order to lose what we actually have.

Coastal

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #88 on: Feb 15, 2018, 11:48:57 PM »
If the result had gone the other way, what would the remainers think if all those in favour of leaving were trying to get a second referendum.
I'm pretty sure they would say the same, that's the result so just accept it.


You said every ones democratic right to go on trying to change things, well those in favour of leaving did (ie the majority of those who voted)
Hell hath no fury like a woman .......

Phil

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Re: Time For A Second Referendum!
« Reply #89 on: Feb 16, 2018, 08:12:07 AM »
If the result had gone the other way, what would the remainers think if all those in favour of leaving were trying to get a second referendum.
I'm pretty sure they would say the same, that's the result so just accept it.

You said every ones democratic right to go on trying to change things, well those in favour of leaving did (ie the majority of those who voted)

Your question was answered in 1975 referendum when I voted to leave what became the EU but the majority voted to remain.

I & all the other 'leave' voters were blessed with the intelligence & maturity to accept that we'd lost in a democratic vote & we stayed in the EU & nothing more was heard about the referendum.

Of course the typical ridiculous reply from the 'Remain' camp is that, in 1975, we should have exercised our democratic right to overturn the 'remain' vote, by mob demonstrations in the streets etc. & by not doing so we weren't being democratic.
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin