Author Topic: debt  (Read 293 times)

Alfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3358
debt
« on: Mar 13, 2018, 03:45:19 PM »

Having recently read that England has a debt of just over 2 trn then checking again   America has a debt of $59.4 trn,  obviously other nations too has debs it seems with the interest added these debts will never be paid off as the interest is accruing faster  than the debt that's being paid off,


Q; so why don't all these countries scrap the debts owed  completely and start again , as who so ever owes some one,  these debts will only get bigger and will never be paid off at all,




Ashy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11735
Re: debt
« Reply #1 on: Mar 13, 2018, 04:04:54 PM »
I think I am right in saying that technically the British debts will be paid off, as they are in the form of fixed term bonds. The snag is that they will be paid in new fixed term bonds.
Chairman, Campaign Against Organisations with Pointless Abbreviated Titles (COWPAT)

I'm not paying 5p for that little bag, put the stuff in my hat

BazzerPontefract

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3124
Re: debt
« Reply #2 on: Mar 13, 2018, 05:11:42 PM »
Having recently read that England has a debt of just over 2 trn then checking again   America has a debt of $59.4 trn,  obviously other nations too has debs it seems with the interest added these debts will never be paid off as the interest is accruing faster  than the debt that's being paid off,


Q; so why don't all these countries scrap the debts owed  completely and start again , as who so ever owes some one,  these debts will only get bigger and will never be paid off at all,
Alfred,
The UK national debt is 1.8 Trillion.
This is all borrowed money, a good portion of it borrowed from the roughly 6,000 occupational pension funds, which pay out pensions to roughly 15 million pensioners and keep assets to pay the future pensions of another 17 million people currently in work. 
The rest the debt is owed to counties with surplus cash, such as Norway and UAE, as well as private investors who invest in a range of savings and investment products.

The government can default on this 1.8 Trillion of debt, but to do this a good portion will be taken from retirees and workers who've saved for a pension.

If you have an occupational pension, take a look at your pension statement which should tell you how much of the fund in invested in government bonds.

There are modern examples of States that have defaulted on debt, Greece is one.  Greece took the money from Private Pension Schemes and used it to service the Debt it had with the IMF and the ECB.  And pensioners had their pensions reduced as a consequence.

In the UK we too have a political party who have a policy to default on debt, it is called the Labour Party.  The Labour Policy is predicated on Spending more money than well earn, adding to the 1.8 Trillion of debt which will ultimately lead to default.
Any Government can sequester the property of pensioners and corporations and individuals that property.  Given that your Topic suggests it a good idea to default on debt, perhaps you'll not mind what property you have being forcibly taken by the government, because that is what default leads to, because if government can't borrow money (because they defaulted) they'll come and take your assets to pay for government.
« Last Edit: Mar 13, 2018, 05:16:31 PM by BazzerPontefract »

fortyone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4559
Re: debt
« Reply #3 on: Mar 13, 2018, 09:17:28 PM »
I may be wrong but I suspect the plan may be to simply print more money rather than default.  There are precedents...

Ashy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11735
Re: debt
« Reply #4 on: Mar 13, 2018, 09:42:39 PM »
"I promise to pay the bearer on demand..."

I bet he wouldn't hand you 100 trillion.
Chairman, Campaign Against Organisations with Pointless Abbreviated Titles (COWPAT)

I'm not paying 5p for that little bag, put the stuff in my hat

fortyone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4559
Re: debt
« Reply #5 on: Mar 13, 2018, 10:40:39 PM »
He'd print a note for 250 Trillion and ask for the change.


I vaguely recall toilet rolls printed as ZimDollars being on sale a while back. The notes were no good. Too shiny. A criticism that can also be levelled at political pamphlets.

Alfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3358
Re: debt
« Reply #6 on: Mar 14, 2018, 09:51:56 AM »

Thank you all very much for your answers, and bazzer pontifract in particular, for your explanation, i  had wondered just how the system worked and so at least i now know and  have clearer understanding of  how our economy works.as well,. so thank you,


out of curiosity i wonder what America owes china, ??? i expect that's mind boggling too,


 

BazzerPontefract

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3124
Re: debt
« Reply #7 on: Mar 14, 2018, 10:19:03 AM »
Thank you all very much for your answers, and bazzer pontifract in particular, for your explanation, i  had wondered just how the system worked and so at least i now know and  have clearer understanding of  how our economy works.as well,. so thank you,


out of curiosity i wonder what America owes china, ??? i expect that's mind boggling too,
Alfred,
Oh, there's massive amounts of money involved.  For example, Norway has a sovereign wealth fund worth 0.8 trillion which it lends to the UK Treasury in the expectation that you and I will pay interest on that to keep Norwegian Pensioners in clover.
The Norwegian assets are roughly half of our national debt of 1.8 trillion, but there are only 5 million norwegians.  So whilst you and I owe 65,000 per household as our part of the UK national debt, each Norwegian (man, woman, and child) has 160,000 in the bank.  Makes you think does it not.

crabbyob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6683
Re: debt
« Reply #8 on: Mar 14, 2018, 12:30:48 PM »
so do immigrant homes owe 65,000 too?
if my music is too loud its because i am deaf

Alfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3358
Re: debt
« Reply #9 on: Mar 14, 2018, 05:58:39 PM »
Thank you B.P  your knowledge is amazing, and  very educational,  i wonder just how many people including myself really understand the way world debts really work , now im a little wiser, thank you,.