The spate with Russia,

[ronyork]

Produce the so called evidence, America used some terrible chemical weapons in Vietman (agent orange) Napalm burning children, civilians ,livestock to what end,I do not like to think of any country having these weapons but they have, and will have. Remember bully boys will always throw their weight around, That,s how we built an empire with the bullet and the bayonet, plus the biggest navy to put the fear of god up the natives. We have many leaders across the world doing  terrible things and in MY opinion Putin is not top of the list. My son studied 3/4 years at the Pushkin and myself been many times , many comments I read regarding Russia seem to come from folk reading the western press and have never spent time in Russia.

[BazzerPontefract]

Having done investigations for 30 years I do have a tendency to not look into things too deeply.

Which person was sectioned? I've referred to more than one person.

Were you one of the people who believed Iraq had WMD's that could be launched against the UK in 45 minutes?

Anyway back to the subject.

Please show me any evidence that only Russia could make or have had Novichok.

Highly likely isn't evidence.

Phil,
Well the ambassador you use as an example, who's current living is made out of fantastical concocted stories that makes X-files look respectable.
I've no idea why you introduced WMD and Iraq, but once again you should credit people with looking at the wider context - there was a context to Iraq that predated WMD hysteria.  Iraq under severe economic pressure, the West preventing any number of material and health goods getting into Iraq with the leftist outcry about people dying because sanctions.  There was other things too, the invasion of Kuwait, the murder of Kurds with chemical weapons...   Oh, recall the super-gun pointed at Isreal, which the BBC was telling us about.  Whatever the concocted stories about WMD, there was a wider context.  So Saddam could have had WMD, so what.  Frankly I was against removing Saddam, just like I'm against removing Assad, believing there could be something far worse to replace them - take Libya, as a good example.  I really don't mind ordinary Iraqis, Syrians, or Libyans suffering under tyrants, if what is to replace the tyrants could be worse, like Iran/Persia.  The people who'd replace these middle-eastern tyrants would use WMD because they saw it as serving God's greater good.
As for Novichok, I think you should accept what the scientists at Portland Down are saying - there are unique chemical markers with these things, imperfection, flaws, materials/chemicals that come from specific regions and specific geological sites.  One lump of coal is not the same as another lump of coal, just like one source of nitrogen is not the same as another source of nitrogen (there are 17 different nitrogen isotopes).
Apart from the science which I trust, the geo-politics of it all points to only one place. 
I watched X-files because I always got a rush out of watching Gillian Anderson, not because I believed it.

[crabbyob]

we trusted the science with the Birmingham six too
nothing nor no-one is infalable

[Alex22]

I've been unable to make my mind up about this.  It seems the finger was always going to point at Russia, but the evidence isn't conclusive.  Why would the Russians want to kill this ex spy now when he has already served time in a Russian jail ?
If it was Russia, perhaps the daughter was the target and not Skripal.  Will we ever find out  ?

[BazzerPontefract]

I think a good number of you are missing the point.
The first thing Putin was trying to do was the put the fear of God up us simple minded folks in the UK, and test the International response to see if our so called Allies were willing to sacrifice their own interests to stand by us.
That Putin did this through the medium of attacking a British Double Agent was incidental but calculated too. Because Putin was sending an unambiguous terror message to any other Russian who might put their interests above those of Mother Russia, as well as writing a Russian signature on the event to ensure the UK and the rest of the world didn't miss the point.
Because the target was a British Double Agent means you can discard any other fanciful actor as the perpetrator - the Russian Mafia have no interest in a Spy, the Arab Factions, if they were interested in making a point, would firstly, have great difficult identifying the Spy, and, even if they could identify the Spy, would see it as confusing their message.  If Arab Factions wanted to make a point with a Russian Developed nerve agent, they'd have done it in Central London, and not with a retired spy living in Salisbury.
Putin is less interested in what the UK does in terms of retaliation, he will be monitoring the sacrifices the Germans, French, Dutch, Danish, and Americans are willing to make to stick up for us.
I suspect he calculates Trump won't want to stop Russians killing Muslim Fanatics in Syria or Chechnya, and in any case Trump'll be too busy fending off political and personal attacks from his own countrymen in the US.
Putin is neither mad nor idiotic, simply very very dangerous.  If the west fails this test, the next test will be the sending special forces into Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, or Poland and kidnapping the odd Pommie or two.  Or perhaps he'll simply annex 50% of the landmass of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania - the places where ethnic Russians are in the majority.  Why not take what you want when no one will lift a finger to stop you.
Putin wants clarity - he wants everyone and his dog to know he did it and he can do it on this occasion and the next with impunity.  The message from Vlad needed to be clear, that was the whole POINT.
Given the reasoning seen on here, I'm surprised no-one has yet named Nicola Sturgeon as Ms Big, all the suggestions I've read so far are just as fanciful.

[minniemouse]

P'raps he wasn't retired.

[zoony]

I come down mostly on B-P's side. The man's certainly not an idiot but, like a spoilt child, he does enjoy indulging his version of bullying. Scared people who are spoiled and indulged do dangerous things and, like Mr Kim, whilst he's scared of leading a country that doesn't want to be isolated in the world community anymore, he will only embrace that community on his terms.

[Phil]

Phil,
Well the ambassador you use as an example, who's current living is made out of fantastical concocted stories that makes X-files look respectable.
I've no idea why you introduced WMD and Iraq, but once again you should credit people with looking at the wider context - there was a context to Iraq that predated WMD hysteria.  Iraq under severe economic pressure, the West preventing any number of material and health goods getting into Iraq with the leftist outcry about people dying because sanctions.  There was other things too, the invasion of Kuwait, the murder of Kurds with chemical weapons...   Oh, recall the super-gun pointed at Isreal, which the BBC was telling us about.  Whatever the concocted stories about WMD, there was a wider context.  So Saddam could have had WMD, so what.  Frankly I was against removing Saddam, just like I'm against removing Assad, believing there could be something far worse to replace them - take Libya, as a good example.  I really don't mind ordinary Iraqis, Syrians, or Libyans suffering under tyrants, if what is to replace the tyrants could be worse, like Iran/Persia.  The people who'd replace these middle-eastern tyrants would use WMD because they saw it as serving God's greater good.
As for Novichok, I think you should accept what the scientists at Portland Down are saying - there are unique chemical markers with these things, imperfection, flaws, materials/chemicals that come from specific regions and specific geological sites.  One lump of coal is not the same as another lump of coal, just like one source of nitrogen is not the same as another source of nitrogen (there are 17 different nitrogen isotopes).
Apart from the science which I trust, the geo-politics of it all points to only one place. 
I watched X-files because I always got a rush out of watching Gillian Anderson, not because I believed it.

I do admire your attempts to make my posts & view on this subject look stupid.

Has Porton Down confirmed that the Novichock was produced in Russia?

Why did I mention Iraq & WMD?

Well quite simply because the same criteria was applied as has been applied to Russia & Novichok, i.e it was 'highly likely' that Iraq had WMDs & it's 'highly likely' that the Novichock was used by Russia.

Right, let's look at coal.

You're quite correct that the carbon footprint of coal will identify where the coal was formed, but if a piece of coal that was mined at Blidworth Colliery is found in Australia, it doesn't prove that the NCB sent it to Australia.

Therefore Russian Novichok found elsewhere in the world does not prove that Russia sent it.

When I did prosecution work how much easier it would have been to be able to present court cases based on what was 'highly likely' as opposed to what I had to prove.

It would have saved me & my team a shed-load of effort.

[Ashy]

I'm with Phil on this one and I'm more convinced by the attention being paid to two foreigners who they say have been poisoned whilst ignoring the tens of thousands of children who have been abused and enslaved by thousands of foreigners. According to "Yes Minister" expelling diplomats is the way to cover things up.

[StephenM123]

I am with Phil and Ashy on this (as I was I  my previous posts on this). There have been far too many miscarriages of justice in the past using this type of logic. Yesterday evening I was talking on the phone with friends in Germany. Whilst we may be told that our friends and allies in USA and Europe support us (the country)  he said that many were sceptical that Putin was that stupid to being all this grief on himself when a robbery gone wrong could have been just another knife crime!

[ronyork]

Are we digging a hole we cannot get out of,!  No proof, It seems some of our allies are becoming unsure of the facts,

[fortyone]

There are two simple questions doubters need to ask themselves.

If any terrorist group got hold of a nerve agent would they be likely to use it to attack a tiny group of people in Salisbury or would the masses in London be a more likely target?

Who in the world apart from the Kremlin would have any interest in murdering a Russian who had acted as a British spy and now living modestly and openly in the UK?

[Ashy]

Who in the world indeed. That would possibly depend on things that we haven't been told about.

[BazzerPontefract]

You're quite correct that the carbon footprint of coal will identify where the coal was formed, but if a piece of coal that was mined at Blidworth Colliery is found in Australia, it doesn't prove that the NCB sent it to Australia.

Therefore Russian Novichok found elsewhere in the world does not prove that Russia sent it.

Phil,
A piece of coal from Blidworth Colliery found in Australia came from Blidworth Colliery.

Surely, you'll agree therefore that the Novichoc, made from geological materials only found in Russia, made from chemical processes in a Lab only found in Russia, that turned up in Salisbury came from the Russian Lab.

Assuming you agree with this, what sort of explanation can you concoct that explains it being used to attempt to kill a retired British Double Agent in Salisbury.

There is only one man with the motivation to do what was done.
Any other actor with different motivations would not have bothered with a retired British Double Agent in Salisbury.

[JCBDriver]

On the whole from the little we, the general public, know about it I find any explanation other than a Russian culprit hard to accept.

However as alternative rational, could it be a Russian state arm that finds it an attractive proposition to maintain the isolation imposed by sanctions from the West.