Author Topic: Built-in Obsolescence.  (Read 3693 times)

fortyone

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #15 on: Apr 21, 2018, 06:24:37 PM »
This is a caravan boiler. Brand is Morco. 

This says spares available - http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-6-34/Combination_Boilers/FEB24ED3.html

This says not this one though - http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/component-6-34-42-375/FEB24ED3/Water_Circuit/DHW_HEAT_EXCHANGER_CW_WASHERS.html

I'm not 100% certain of the diagnosis either as sometimes the heat is being diverted to the central heating output although that may just be a safety feature and didn't happen when the gas bloke was trying it because he obviously checked that. My main query is how a passive device could fail over winter and suspect it may be frost damage but convincing an insurance company of that with no leaks would be a problem. The gas bloke did offer to try flushing it through but of course there would be no guarantee of success.

Phil

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #16 on: Apr 21, 2018, 09:11:00 PM »
This is a caravan boiler. Brand is Morco. 

This says spares available - http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/stock-6-34/Combination_Boilers/FEB24ED3.html

This says not this one though - http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/component-6-34-42-375/FEB24ED3/Water_Circuit/DHW_HEAT_EXCHANGER_CW_WASHERS.html

I'm not 100% certain of the diagnosis either as sometimes the heat is being diverted to the central heating output although that may just be a safety feature and didn't happen when the gas bloke was trying it because he obviously checked that. My main query is how a passive device could fail over winter and suspect it may be frost damage but convincing an insurance company of that with no leaks would be a problem. The gas bloke did offer to try flushing it through but of course there would be no guarantee of success.

The plate heat exchangers are prone to limescale blockages so the timing could just be coincidental.

Normally the boiler overheats because the hot water from the main heat exchanger passes through the plate heat exchanger which isn't getting enough cold water through to dissipate the heat.

Our boiler used to bang & knock before the overheat protector cut in.

If water goes to the central heating when hot water is being run then this is usually a diverter valve problem.

We had both the plate heat exchanger & the diverter valve cartridge replaced just to cover both bases.

https://www.directheatingsupplies.co.uk/ideal-dhw-plate-heat-exchanger-cw-seals-170742
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

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fortyone

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #17 on: Apr 21, 2018, 09:48:07 PM »
If water goes to the central heating when hot water is being run then this is usually a diverter valve problem.
Certainly that's the obvious diagnosis but most of the time that doesn't happen. As it happens this mornings shower was fine but not until it had been running a while.  The behaviour is so random I'd even put the main control board down as suspect. I'm not prepared to gamble on any of that though especially as it might go wrong again and can't be fixed as the spare part isn't available again.

Phil

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #18 on: Apr 21, 2018, 09:58:12 PM »
Certainly that's the obvious diagnosis but most of the time that doesn't happen. As it happens this mornings shower was fine but not until it had been running a while.  The behaviour is so random I'd even put the main control board down as suspect. I'm not prepared to gamble on any of that though especially as it might go wrong again and can't be fixed as the spare part isn't available again.

That was the problem we had.

The boiler would act up & then be fine for a couple of weeks & then act up again.

The first heating engineer disagreed with my diagnosis so we bought the parts & got another one to fit them.

He'd never worked on our model of boiler so, although I could have fitted the parts myself, I had to tell him what to do & he did it because he was gas safe registered & I'm not.

Once we got the two parts changed it was like having a new boiler but I accept it could have been a gamble.
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

zoony

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #19 on: Apr 22, 2018, 12:21:51 AM »
We're all built-in obsolescent really. Predictably a part will wear or get damaged and that's often repairable but now and again a crucial bit goes wrong and we're finally done. Hopefully to be replaced by another just such. Why would the machines we build be any different.
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

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Coastal

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #20 on: Apr 22, 2018, 12:28:37 AM »
Most things pack up just after the warranty expires.
With us it's supposed to be three score years and ten, but you won't find a warranty like that.  ;D
Hell hath no fury like a woman .......

zoony

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #21 on: Apr 22, 2018, 01:08:08 AM »
Your quote immediately brought to mind this song..


Three score and ten, boys and men, were lost from Grimsby town,
    From Yarmouth down to Scarborough many hundreds more were drowned.
  Their herring craft their trawlers their fishing smacks as well'
   they long did fight that bitter night and battled with the swell...


Written in the 1890s it commemorates a freak storm which decimated the East coast fishing fleet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEjW9Pxildo



"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

                                           cowboy wisdom.

fortyone

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #22 on: Apr 22, 2018, 09:48:51 AM »
Why would the machines we build be any different.
The point is this boiler was new six years ago and now you can't get parts for it. That's built in obsolescence by my book.

In the dim and distant past I worked for Ford. When a model went out of production an ATR (all time requirement) was calculated for every unique part based on past service history. That number were stocked and excess scrapped (physically destroyed so some wiley devil couldn't undercut Ford on parts sales). This wasn't altruism it was good business sense. Each year they'd calculate required overall revenue from parts and recalculate prices. Competetive parts (somebody else sold them) often didn't go up much but captive parts (stuff only Ford sold) got hit every time. By the end of their service life the prices for some bits were ludicrous.

Back on the boiler though the damned thing won't stay lit now. There is no error code to say why. Unless the new one can be fitted pretty quickly we'll likely go home.

xetog

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #23 on: Apr 22, 2018, 10:43:54 AM »
Zoony.  One of the parts nature gave me gave up when I was 35 (no not that one!) and I was fitted with a replacement mechanical aortic valve which will be 40 years old later this year.  I reckon it has cycled on and off about 1.5 billion times and seems still to be going strong.  I have always wondered how long the warranty lasts. ;D


As far as household replacements are concerned, my boiler is 12 years old and is serviced by the same guy annually.  The only problem so far has been about 4 years ago when the pressurisation unit inexplicably lost its charge, was repressurised and has been fine ever since.  He advises against changing it yet as it has the same efficiency rating as a newer model.


Other things, if they break down out of warranty, I just buy new ones.  I never buy extended warranties, they are a scam.  Relative to inflation, most houshold machines are so much cheaper these days that warrranties - which often don't pay out - are as much as 50% of the price of a new machine.




Mike.
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

Coastal

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #24 on: Apr 22, 2018, 11:20:42 AM »
Xetog, "seems still to be going strong" well I assume it was as you wrote that  ;D
and as for when the warranty expires, I'd ask if you can extend it NOW   
That's one extended warranty that might actually be money well spent 


It's nice to know that they do build some things to last.
Hell hath no fury like a woman .......

xetog

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #25 on: Apr 22, 2018, 11:22:39 AM »
Costal, I will be attending my 5 yearly checkup in May, and i will let you know.


Mike
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

Fred Smiff

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #26 on: Apr 22, 2018, 11:46:03 AM »
Xetog , I asked for a mechanical valve , but ( for reasons not known ) was given a bovine tissue one . it's still working OK after 9 years , the only problem is that when I see a jar of horseradish sauce , I get hiccups !  ;D
My Mrs says I've got a mind like a Welsh railway........one track and filthy 😁

xetog

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #27 on: Apr 22, 2018, 12:12:37 PM »
Just as a matter of (morbid) interest the average life expectancy of a 35 year old after mechanical heart valve replacement is 16 to 26 years. Mine will be 40 in June this year, so well beyond what was expected, so finger crossed!

Mike.
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

minniemouse

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #28 on: Apr 22, 2018, 01:10:02 PM »
The good news is Xetog, they are perfecting easier ways to do replacements now, so if yours needs replacing it hopefully won't be such a big operation.
Smoking kills you, bacon kills you, smoking bacon cures it.

Phil

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Re: Built-in Obsolescence.
« Reply #29 on: Apr 22, 2018, 01:52:25 PM »
The point is this boiler was new six years ago and now you can't get parts for it. That's built in obsolescence by my book.

Back on the boiler though the damned thing won't stay lit now. There is no error code to say why. Unless the new one can be fitted pretty quickly we'll likely go home.

The gas supply to your boiler if governed by the water flow so if the inlet water pressure for your boiler drops below 1 bar, it won't light.

Also I assume you have a reasonably full (recommended minimum 19kg capacity) gas cylinder & that the valve hasn't got stuck over the winter?
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin