Author Topic: Caribbean Imagrants  (Read 18755 times)

crabbyob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24438
Re: Caribbean Imagrants
« Reply #165 on: May 10, 2018, 10:48:01 PM »
it will all be done and dusted... there are little men to do this kind of stuff
“Life may not be the party we hoped for, but as we are already here we may as well dance”

Phil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11902
Re: Caribbean Immigrants.
« Reply #166 on: May 11, 2018, 08:41:55 AM »
Although I might have used more words, I believe you to be correct crabbyob.  There is also the matter of 'leave to remain' either indefinite, or limited that will allow the holder to travel and return provided it has not expired.  That is what is now being given out to those of the Windrush generation who failed to apply for a British passport in the 50-odd years of grace afforded to them.  Their offspring - if born in the UK - will have a British birth certificate and are automatically British citizens whether they have a passport or not.

Surely, the point is how do you discriminate between legal and illegal immigrants? Not by race I am sure.  You gave the answer above - saving my illustration - because anyone who travels outside the UK needs a passport to get back in (theoretically anyway) and anyone caught demanding entry at the border without the appropriate documents should be turned away unless they claim asylum and then a whole new shoal of rules apply.  I guess nobody thought that people who have been here for over half a century would not have realised this simple fact.

But considering a British couple were in the paper a few days ago because they did not realise that at the end of an interest-only mortgage one was required to pay off the capital sum loaned it is clear to me that there is a whole strata of British society "Who don't have the sense they were born with" as my dad used to say whenever someone did something stupid.  And I think it is getting worse.

Although, back to the subject, I assume when the rules were drawn up, nobody even gave a thought to the fact that a whole raft of immigrants with the right to stay would not have availed themselves of the opportunity to get a passport, especially since visitors from the Commonwealth long ago lost the right to enter the UK without a visa, especially since many of those who write and implement the legislation have shown themselves not to be the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Anyhow, it seems that the Government have put sufficient actions in train to correct the slip and the only people who still harp on about the nasty Tory's are the grim Labour - Momentum party activists who are still asserting that we have deported hundreds of the Windrush generation, when we don't even truly know of one who wasn't already out of the county of their own volition.

Mike.

Minniemouse.  I think she has claimed asylum ;D

"That is what is now being given out to those of the Windrush generation who failed to apply for a British passport in the 50-odd years of grace afforded to them.  Their offspring - if born in the UK - will have a British birth certificate and are automatically British citizens whether they have a passport or not."

This is the popular misconception that has caused a lot of the problem.

As per the 1981 British Nationality Act you're only an automatic British citizen if:

a: you were born in the UK.

and

b: one of your parents was born in the UK.

Therefore anyone from the Windrush generation who was born in the UK but both parents were not, does not have an automatic right to British citizenship & was required to apply for citizenship.
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

crabbyob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24438
Re: Caribbean Imagrants
« Reply #167 on: May 11, 2018, 08:50:46 AM »
its certainly a can of worms... i mean how can anyone be entitled to two passports?... but when our servicemen and women are serving abroad with their families and a child is born in far off places, does that entitle them to that countries passport, and are they also entitled to a UK passport if they hold a foreign passport?... surely they must surrender one of them?... Indians in Goa are sometimes entitled to a Portuguese Passport, but if they claim it they must surrender their Indian nationality never mind passport and are not entitled to vote in any election.... now that i agree with, in this country as soon as you have an address you are entitled to vote... this should be stopped..
“Life may not be the party we hoped for, but as we are already here we may as well dance”

Phil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11902
Re: Caribbean Immigrants.
« Reply #168 on: May 11, 2018, 08:57:22 AM »
its certainly a can of worms... i mean how can anyone be entitled to two passports?... but when our servicemen and women are serving abroad with their families and a child is born in far off places, does that entitle them to that countries passport, and are they also entitled to a UK passport if they hold a foreign passport?... surely them must surrender one of them?... Indians in Goa are sometimes entitled to a Portuguese Passport, but if they claim it they musy surrender their Indian nationality never mind passport and are not entitled to vote in any election.... now that i agree with, in this country as soon as you have an address you are entitled to vote... this should be stopped..

I suppose that would depend on the rules of the country in which they were born.

A person born abroad to a British service family is automatically British.

A person born abroad to a British family who'd emigrated to another country would not have automatic British citizenship but could apply for it.

The UK has just about the most lax immigration rules in the world but they still aren't lax enough for the art-farty liberal pc brigade who won't stop until we don't have any immigration rules.
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

Ashy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32147
Re: Caribbean Imagrants
« Reply #169 on: May 11, 2018, 08:59:10 AM »
Many people hold dual nationality, it depends on the rules in each country. As to the question whether it is right, probably not because one is probably for loyalty and the other for convenience.

GrannyMac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25218
Re: Caribbean Imagrants
« Reply #170 on: May 11, 2018, 09:07:40 AM »
My paternal grandmother was Irish, born in Dublin. I believe I could apply for an Irish passport as well as holding a UK passport.
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.

R. Gervais

Phil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11902
Re: Caribbean Immigrants.
« Reply #171 on: May 11, 2018, 09:10:55 AM »
My paternal grandmother was Irish, born in Dublin. I believe I could apply for an Irish passport as well as holding a UK passport.

Not sure about that, I'm fairly certain you could not have British & Irish nationality at the same time.
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

xetog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11227
Re: Caribbean Imagrants
« Reply #172 on: May 11, 2018, 09:29:05 AM »
I think you will find she has a visa miniemouse and that she intends applying for British citizenship via the normal route used by any other pleb. ;D (I do wonder what will happen if she fails the exam?).


Mike.
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

Phil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11902
Re: Caribbean Immigrants.
« Reply #173 on: May 11, 2018, 09:34:36 AM »
Not sure about that, I'm fairly certain you could not have British & Irish nationality at the same time.

I've had a look & it seems that you could which is a bit confusing when there are also rules for renouncing British Citizenship in order to take a foreign citizenship.

Just another example of the lax 'do whatever suits you' UK.

https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality

https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

minniemouse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9158
Re: Caribbean Imagrants
« Reply #174 on: May 11, 2018, 02:59:13 PM »
I was born in Northern Ireland to English parents who were in the forces.  I think I am entitled to apply for an Irish passport which might be a good idea with the EU in mind.
Smoking kills you, bacon kills you, smoking bacon cures it.

zoony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 63553
Re: Caribbean Imagrants
« Reply #175 on: May 11, 2018, 03:40:48 PM »
Minnie, I'da thunk that as NI is part of the UK and not of the Republic, you're only entitled to a British passport. Just my thoughts..
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

                                           cowboy wisdom.

minniemouse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9158
Re: Caribbean Imagrants
« Reply #176 on: May 11, 2018, 03:47:29 PM »
In the case of passports people born in N. Ireland are entitled to an Irish passport apparently.


https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/how-apply-irish-passport-11519964
Smoking kills you, bacon kills you, smoking bacon cures it.

GrannyMac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25218
Re: Caribbean Immigrants.
« Reply #177 on: May 11, 2018, 03:51:28 PM »
Not sure about that, I'm fairly certain you could not have British & Irish nationality at the same time.


I couldn't actually have two passports, I was wrong about that.  But I could have dual nationality, Irish and British.  I knew I'd read about it somewhere.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37246769

My paternal grandmother was born in the 1870s in Dublin, however, no birth certificate has ever been found. A company of heir hunters searched for her and her siblings in the 1950s, my dad inherited a small sum.  Many records were burnt in Ireland in the early 20th century, a nightmare for people doing family history searches.
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.

R. Gervais

Phil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11902
Re: Caribbean Immigrants.
« Reply #178 on: May 11, 2018, 05:02:11 PM »
I think you will find she has a visa miniemouse and that she intends applying for British citizenship via the normal route used by any other pleb. ;D (I do wonder what will happen if she fails the exam?).

Mike.

Well she's obviously passed Harry's examination & I don't think there'll be any closer ones.

 ;D ;D ;D
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

Phil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11902
Re: Caribbean Immigrants.
« Reply #179 on: May 11, 2018, 05:09:02 PM »

I couldn't actually have two passports, I was wrong about that.  But I could have dual nationality, Irish and British.  I knew I'd read about it somewhere.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37246769

My paternal grandmother was born in the 1870s in Dublin, however, no birth certificate has ever been found. A company of heir hunters searched for her and her siblings in the 1950s, my dad inherited a small sum.  Many records were burnt in Ireland in the early 20th century, a nightmare for people doing family history searches.

This Irish Citizens Information link may interest you.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin