Author Topic: Virtue Signaller  (Read 4845 times)

zoony

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #15 on: Jun 19, 2018, 12:15:12 PM »
I'm surprised that I'd remember anything from that long ago.. ;D
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Phil

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #16 on: Jun 19, 2018, 12:18:24 PM »
I'm surprised that I'd remember anything from that long ago.. ;D

The search facility never forgets.

You might be right at that zoony - http://www.pensionersforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9035.msg116230.html#msg116230

This is a joint first.

It's the first time that the term virtue signalling was used on the forum.

It's the first time that virtue signalling was used in a perjorative manner on the forum.

Is this what's known as hoist by your own whatsit?

 ;D
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fortyone

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #17 on: Jun 19, 2018, 12:26:42 PM »
I think this is destined to be a no comment as are so many others.

Undercover Pensioner

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #18 on: Jun 19, 2018, 08:40:04 PM »
So this phrase was used way back when to describe someone signalling their virtues in order to enhance their standing within the group.  None of that changes the meaning of the word, your misuse of it or other people's proper use.     
The vote for Brexit was a vote to take back what we hadn't lost in order to lose what we actually have.

zoony

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #19 on: Jun 20, 2018, 01:10:38 AM »
I guess that meaningless post, I say that not to offend but perhaps I didn't understand it, seems to mean that only you know how to use it correctly and the rest of us ignorant oiks use it for name calling or as a term of abuse? And there was me thinking that my use of it toward others was a compliment. It was meant as an insult and I'd happily repeat it. :)
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

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GrannyMac

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #20 on: Jun 20, 2018, 07:06:46 AM »
I notice that UC's last post has been modified by Chris. Suggests that there might be something missing.

Zoony, Ashy's post is a good example of how someone showing empathy gets  the term reflected as an insult.  it suggests that anyone proposing an immigrant should be helped is virtue signalling, that person can have no common sense, as that would decree sending all immigrants back home.

I've been listening to guards in the USA tormenting children who are scared and upset because they've been separated from their parents and locked up. I think the situation for those children is terrifying, whatever their parents have done, these are vulnerable youngsters. By even mentioning it I'll be accused of virtue signalling by some.
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.

R. Gervais

Undercover Pensioner

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #21 on: Jun 20, 2018, 07:12:47 AM »
[Hugh sigh] Thank you GrannyMac (keep checking the edit!)

Like you, I do not see comments of what is happening in the USA as any sort of 'virtue signalling'.  The situation is appalling.  As I understand from this mornings comments they do not even have a proper system to ensure they can link the children back to the parents.  I cannot believe the idea of any sort of "selection" on entering a camp, with cages for the children, can be acceptable to anyone with any knowledge of history or imagination.

This thread refers back to zoony's comment in his OP about Grenfell.
Quote
I'm tired of the barrel-scraping articles about the folk involved in that tragedy and the virtue-signalling by all and sundry who weren't.
As I have tried to say, just as Ashy, in his recent comment on this thread, seems to be suggesting you can use the expression "virtue signalling" to close down conversation you don't like, so is zoony in his OP.  This was never the meaning of the expression, either in its root in the academic world - where it applies to all species of animal - or generally in conversation.
The vote for Brexit was a vote to take back what we hadn't lost in order to lose what we actually have.

Phil

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #22 on: Jun 20, 2018, 07:23:10 AM »
I notice that UC's last post has been modified by Chris. Suggests that there might be something missing.

Zoony, Ashy's post is a good example of how someone showing empathy gets  the term reflected as an insult.  it suggests that anyone proposing an immigrant should be helped is virtue signalling, that person can have no common sense, as that would decree sending all immigrants back home.

I've been listening to guards in the USA tormenting children who are scared and upset because they've been separated from their parents and locked up. I think the situation for those children is terrifying, whatever their parents have done, these are vulnerable youngsters. By even mentioning it I'll be accused of virtue signalling by some.

I'm in the group, along with Martin Daubney, who think that it's necessary to arrest the illegal immigrant parents & that since their children cannot be held in adult USA prisons, they have to be held in camps.

5,000,000 illegal immigrant Mexicans use their children try to get into the USA every year, so the camps, & the treatment the children get, will send the message of "it ain't gonna work so don't bother trying".

Post such as how dreadful, poor children etc which can be seen to claim the moral high ground over my viewpoint is virtue signalling.

"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

GrannyMac

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #23 on: Jun 20, 2018, 07:49:24 AM »
I didn't suggest that it's wrong to get the message to parents that what they are doing is illegal.  I accept that the children may be held separately. But they are children, they aren't responsible for parental choice, so treating them humanely is within the power of the authorities. 
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.

R. Gervais

Scrumpy

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #24 on: Jun 20, 2018, 10:01:48 AM »
GrannyMac.. I would never have known that a post can be modified by Chris until you pointed it out ..
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Phil

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #25 on: Jun 20, 2018, 10:45:42 AM »
I didn't suggest that it's wrong to get the message to parents that what they are doing is illegal.  I accept that the children may be held separately. But they are children, they aren't responsible for parental choice, so treating them humanely is within the power of the authorities.

I've found what I hope will explain my take on virtue signalling.

On Sky News this morning the newspaper reviewers were Martin Daubney who writes articles for the Telegraph & Amy somebody who's a Scottish environmentalist.

Anyway, the subject of the USA immigration policy was discussed & Martin Daubney said it was necessary because 5,000,000 illegal Mexican immigrants try to enter the USA every year, which is the same as 5 Manchesters & that many American citizens, including his sister, support the measure.

Children have to be separated from their parents because the parents are arrested & the chlidren are not.

Amy somebody said that she disagreed with separating the children from their parents which was ok as it was her view.

She then continued by saying something along the lines of "you're a father, I don't know how you can morally justify it" to Martin Daubney.

It was at that point she became a virtue signaller by inferring that her view was morally virtuous & his wasn't & that her moral virtue made her viewpoint the correct one.
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

Undercover Pensioner

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #26 on: Jun 20, 2018, 11:22:12 AM »
So she can't question his view on this Phil, or you will call it virtue signalling?  Virtue signalling is not giving a point of view when you strongly hold that point of view - which she appears to.  It is making a statement to gain approval.  As far as I can tell from your report of what was said the women was not putting forward an opinion to gain anyone's approval, but just to put forward her point of view - which is actually what she was being paid to do at the time. 


You, and possibly others, seem to feel that anyone who puts forward a point of view and is vaguely emotional about it is virtue signalling. 
The vote for Brexit was a vote to take back what we hadn't lost in order to lose what we actually have.

zoony

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #27 on: Jun 20, 2018, 11:53:14 AM »
I notice that UC's last post has been modified by Chris. Suggests that there might be something missing.

Zoony, Ashy's post is a good example of how someone showing empathy gets  the term reflected as an insult.  it suggests that anyone proposing an immigrant should be helped is virtue signalling, that person can have no common sense, as that would decree sending all immigrants back home.

I've been listening to guards in the USA tormenting children who are scared and upset because they've been separated from their parents and locked up. I think the situation for those children is terrifying, whatever their parents have done, these are vulnerable youngsters. By even mentioning it I'll be accused of virtue signalling by some.


I did notice that Mac but it didn't 'click' that Chris had removed any meaning from it. Not sure I like censorship though I guess it's to try and avoid conflict. Chris's site, Chris's rules..
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

                                           cowboy wisdom.

Phil

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #28 on: Jun 20, 2018, 12:12:08 PM »

I did notice that Mac but it didn't 'click' that Chris had removed any meaning from it. Not sure I like censorship though I guess it's to try and avoid conflict. Chris's site, Chris's rules..

Chris is as laid back & tolerant as they come.

If he felt the need to remove / modify something then it needed removing / modifying.
"I've stopped arguing with idiots. They will only bring me down to their level and beat me with experience.”

Paraphrased from George Carlin

Michael Rolls

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Re: Virtue Signaller
« Reply #29 on: Jun 20, 2018, 12:32:00 PM »
As far as I can recollect, until viewing this thread I had never come across the phrase 'virtue signalling' but it doe seem to be or less what we used to describe as a 'holier than thou' attitude.
Mike
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