Author Topic: Genoa Bridge Collapse  (Read 947 times)

Ashy

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Genoa Bridge Collapse
« on: Aug 15, 2018, 09:20:13 AM »
Very bad news from northern Italy but some astounding luck, some were pulled out of the wreckage alive and then there were blocks of flats close by that the bridge could easily have fallen on to.

Scrumpy

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #1 on: Aug 15, 2018, 09:54:42 AM »



They are still rescuing people trapped. Blocks of concrete have served as a roof protector to some.. Hopefully more will be found alive.. 
Everything will be alright in the end, and if it’s not alright, its not the end.

fortyone

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #2 on: Aug 15, 2018, 09:58:30 AM »
I hope so too but the news last night said it was a 300 foot fall so I'm amazed that there were any survivors at all. Sounded like it was a privately operated toll bridge which may or may not offer a clue on how it got so bad it simply fell down.

Ashy

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #3 on: Aug 15, 2018, 10:03:42 AM »
Some reports suggest it may have been struck by lightning, and if the lighning conductors had been missing that could have a bearing on it.

fortyone

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #4 on: Aug 15, 2018, 10:06:37 AM »
That was mentioned on the news too but there was no sign of lightning in the footage showing one of the towers falling although I suppose it could have been struck a little earlier. Are you suggesting somebody could have pinched the lightning conductors and it wasn't noticed?

Michael Rolls

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #5 on: Aug 15, 2018, 12:40:01 PM »
Up until a few minutes ago I had only seen pictures of the carnage at ground level - now I have seen a long shot of the bridge. How on earth could anybody survive falling off that - but thank heaven (OK I don't believe in heaven, but it's a convenient cliche) some of them did.
Mike
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zoony

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #6 on: Aug 15, 2018, 01:49:39 PM »
 Mafia concrete?
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

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Ashy

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #7 on: Aug 15, 2018, 01:59:25 PM »
It's not the lightning antenna that usually goes astray but I am not really suggesting anything. There will be an enquiry, lessons will be learned, and I doubt if we will hear another word about it. But there will be a few bridge engineers looking worried today.

zoony

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #8 on: Aug 15, 2018, 05:31:49 PM »
I think the bridge is owned and maintained by Autostrada, a huge business run out of Luxembourg. As such they pay no taxes but they have some questions to answer. 5oyrs is no age for a good bridge properly cared for.
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

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xetog

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #9 on: Aug 15, 2018, 05:45:36 PM »

There will be structural engineers around the world scratching their heads today and feeling worried about their own bridges of similar design.  I worked for a structural consultancy when the World Trade Centre came down and although the design process had moved on since then, hundreds of other buildings in the 70's and 80's had been based on that design.  Of course it had never been envisage that it would be hit by a huge jet plane, but the limitations were known and even in 2011 buildings were already being designed to take a direct hit by a loaded 747 but nobody was going to pull down a couple of billon $ buildings on the off chance that some nut would fly a big 'plane into it.  Of course we know better now, but there must be a huge number of high rise buildings in the US and elsewhere built to that design.  It is natural that if a design is economic and successful, other engineers are going to copy it, so there will be bridges all over the world today being subjected to intense scrutiny.


Some say that the failure was predicted 2 years ago due to poor maintenance and Italian politicians are already queueing up to blame the EU because the promised funds to enable the works have not materialised.  I think the joke about Mafia concrete may not be far from the truth.  I have been involved in inquiries in the Middle East where local concrete has been so substandard that it was little better than mud and whole buildings had to be torn down after our engineers had refused safety certificates even though the strength was apparently up  to standards when test cubes were evaluated locally.


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Ashy

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #10 on: Aug 15, 2018, 06:01:30 PM »
What makes this collapse such a stark tragedy is that there was apparently no warning, it just fell down which rather suggests that whatever was holding it up had finally snapped. It's amazing that it fell on railway lines but there were no trains involved, but missed others, and missed the blocks of flats built underneath it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-15/what-caused-genoas-bridge-to-collapse/10121848

zoony

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #11 on: Aug 15, 2018, 06:27:17 PM »
Xetog. My remark about Mafia concrete wasn't a joke.
"Listen to the wind, it cleans the mind."

"Never use money to measure wealth, son"

                                           cowboy wisdom.

fortyone

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #12 on: Aug 15, 2018, 07:40:46 PM »
Given that there are reports that they were shoring up the foundations of the tower that collapsed I suspect that the investigation won't be protracted.

Bill Stickers

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #13 on: Aug 15, 2018, 10:56:30 PM »
I was living in Woodland Hills Los Angeles in 1994 when the Northridge quake struck. Around 6.7 on the Richter scale the destruction was dreadful, as were the aftershocks occurring many hours later throughout the entire San Fernando Valley.  Like many I went to a scene of carnage to help and that night made friends with complete strangers united in a single end to move rubble and wreckage. Only when I returned home hours later, did I realise the pain and injury my exertions had caused. My company thought I may have been killed and for hours, I too was posted on the missing list. Amazingly deaths were limited to 57. How a Thunder storm can wreck as large a structure as Genoa's flyover may reveal findings on materials used etc. The outcome, if it's not covered up, may be revelatory. Lets hope more souls can be saved in the immediate future and my thoughts are focused from memory tonight upon those whose fates are yet to be discovered.

Ashy

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Re: Genoa Bridge Collapse
« Reply #14 on: Aug 16, 2018, 06:30:42 AM »
In situations like this, the sad fact is that the bridge was already unsustainable, the strength of the members particularly the tensile members, had already gone and in all probability only the deck joints were holding it all in place. Had the foundations been weakened by ongoing work? Then the storm that was raging was enough to snap the bits that were still stuck together, with catastrophic results.