Author Topic: where is it all going to end.  (Read 310 times)

Alfred

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where is it all going to end.
« on: Jan 11, 2019, 08:20:00 AM »

Virtually every day we read or hear of more companies going bust and having to lay off workers as we all know, the latest fatality is the jaguar, land rover, company cutting back on its work force, and the company being owned by TATA  and Indian based company in India, 


the high street shops having reported low Christmas sales figures , and the internet  blamed for the on line shopping sales, which has taken over from the high street shops , so with  all this going on comes the question where is it all going to end,


could we, for example get back into re inventing our selves , encouraging industries to grow larger and the re emergence of apprenticeships begin all over again ,
its amazing when you think that a hundred years ago the united kingdom was the centre of the worlds industry as then we virtually made everything and exported to all the countries in the world , where as today weve run down everything through lack of natural resources and had to rely originally on Japanese , now Chinese imports, 


so the question is where is it going to end as more and more people are being laid off from work as cut backs begin to hit hard pressed families including those with children and mortgages,
although the word recession isnt used a lot it does make you think ,


Q;  what do you think  we should do to  kick start the united kingdom back into manufacturing  as we did in the past. what direction should we be heading for ...as usual i look forward to reading your comments and replies, with interest,.

BazzerPontefract

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #1 on: Jan 11, 2019, 08:35:54 AM »
Virtually every day we read or hear of more companies going bust and having to lay off workers as we all know, the latest fatality is the jaguar, land rover, company cutting back on its work force, and the company being owned by TATA  and Indian based company in India, 
Alfred,
JLR is not a fatality.
It has taken a 110 million pound bribe from Slovakia to establish a plant in Slovakia which will employ 3000 production staff.  Its IT, Programs and System, Design, and Research and Development is being outsourced to India.
The people in Oxford are losing there jobs as a conseqquence of foriegn ownership of a UK Brand, and a EU policy which encourages the transfer of all kinds of jobs to the least developed part of Europe.

Diasi

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #2 on: Jan 11, 2019, 09:19:06 AM »
Alfred,
JLR is not a fatality.
It has taken a 110 million pound bribe from Slovakia to establish a plant in Slovakia which will employ 3000 production staff.  Its IT, Programs and System, Design, and Research and Development is being outsourced to India.
The people in Oxford are losing there jobs as a consequence of foreign ownership of a UK Brand, and a EU policy which encourages the transfer of all kinds of jobs to the least developed part of Europe.

Many of the UK's current problems are as a direct result of our EU membership.

Those of us who voted to leave the EEC in 1975 could see it coming & it was so obvious that a crystal ball wasn't needed.
If the Jews are God's chosen people, why did he give the oil to the Arabs?

xetog

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #3 on: Jan 11, 2019, 10:02:26 AM »

JLR are in many ways victims of their own folly, Brexit has very little to do with it, but is being 'pumped big' by every remainer cause. There is a world-wide drop in the sale of cars - Just ask BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Ford or anyone else who mass manufactures cars.  JLR have long concentrated their efforts on diesel technology and have few petrol offerings.  They are attempting to go straight to electric where it is a niche market at present and they have relied heavily on the far east for improved sales where they are now tightening their belts in view of the ever more parlous Chinese fiscal situation.  Couple that with Germany on the brink of recession and the Americans wondering how long the Trump boom is going to last and there seems to be a perfect storm of factors weighing against JLR.


If the Indians had not come along JLR would be as dead as BMC.  I have had a number of JLR products and although they were brilliant designs, apart from a Land Rover, all were badly manufactured and spent more time in the workshop than on the road.  Take a look at any of our car manufacturers and the only efficient ones are foreign owned, why?  I don't think we will ever get back into manufacturing big time because although the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak.  With every mother wanting her little Jack (or Jill) to have a university education, take a rubbish degree and become a computer games programmer, a share trader,  a footballer, or pop star, there are few who have any desire to create something with their hands.


As we have said many times in these pages none of our politicians seem to have the will, or the ability to motivate native Brits to do any real work, allowing those who fail to find their cosy niche to collect benefits and sit smoking pot whilst cheap and willing foreigners do all the work.


I guess I am a miserable sod this morning as I definitely don't feel 100%, but that is my current analysis of the situation!


Mike.X
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Bobcat

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #4 on: Jan 11, 2019, 10:38:44 AM »
I'm not an economist and understand very little about economics, but there appears to me to be an underlying fallacy in the economic models used by capitalist countries and that is grow, consume and get richer. We live on a finite planet, with finite resources, we can not continue to grow and consume for ever.

Diasi

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #5 on: Jan 11, 2019, 10:57:00 AM »
I'm not an economist and understand very little about economics.

Well you're not on your own as most economists seem to understand very little about economics.

In fact it would be virtually impossible to think of anything as flawed & imprecise as economics.
If the Jews are God's chosen people, why did he give the oil to the Arabs?

fortyone

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #6 on: Jan 11, 2019, 11:31:01 AM »
Statistics.

I was giving my granddaughter a little assistance with her dissertation. The results were all over the place and looked an absolute mess proving nothing. She couldn't figure the standard IBM statistics program all Unis apparently use and nor could I. Excel just highlighted massive variations from what should have been a straight line relationship.

She got assistance from the statistics bloke at Uni. Voila. Her wild results suddenly proved what they were supposed to prove to 5 Sigma or whatever it is.

She got a first with honours.


Michael Rolls

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #7 on: Jan 11, 2019, 12:04:11 PM »
The EU is  definitely a player in the JLR move' There was a 111 million sweetener to move to Slovakia rather than Mexico - although it seems highly probable that JLR would shift production to somewhere cheap, no matter what. I also believe that they are in the process of outsourcing much of the 'back office' tasks to India.
To be honest, unless we can somehow get to a low tax environment for business (impossible in the EU) I can't see substantial manufacturing ever returning to the UK - our labour is too expensive and I don't see how we can reverse decades of decline
Mike
Whoops - just seen BP's post - he has already expressed much of what I wrote
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Diasi

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #8 on: Jan 11, 2019, 12:13:58 PM »
Statistics.


Statistics does run very close.

There's a statistic on the Sky News running banner that says there are 4.2 stillbirths in every 1000 births.

The EU is  definitely a player in the JLR move' There was a 111 million sweetener to move to Slovakia rather than Mexico - although it seems highly probable that JLR would shift production to somewhere cheap, no matter what. I also believe that they are in the process of outsourcing much of the 'back office' tasks to India.
To be honest, unless we can somehow get to a low tax environment for business (impossible in the EU) I can't see substantial manufacturing ever returning to the UK - our labour is too expensive and I don't see how we can reverse decades of decline
Mike
Whoops - just seen BP's post - he has already expressed much of what I wrote

The EU constraints are the major factors in the UK's woes.
« Last Edit: Jan 11, 2019, 12:56:15 PM by Diasi »
If the Jews are God's chosen people, why did he give the oil to the Arabs?

Ashy

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #9 on: Jan 11, 2019, 03:49:30 PM »
Am I right in thinking that most of our cars in use today were made outside the eu? Mine is Japanese made in Japan and a lot of the small ones are from the far east, so why can't we make more of our own once out of the eu?
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digitalis

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #10 on: Jan 11, 2019, 03:50:09 PM »

We will never know how or why companies decided to upshift and move away,suffice to say there are massive inducements to move to countries offering cheaper labour with hidden inducements to set up shop. I think I read Michae Moores Now Downsize This. It detailed all the inducements industries got from government to move to various locations. The companies took the cash then never moved,or moved then shiut down when they got better deals. Basically it was the government paying said private company to create jobs and profit. If and when there was any signs of non profit,the company upped and went. Factor in the bamboozlement and rigged accountancy firms any you have modern big manufacturing industry today: they tell any government what they want and the government will stump up the cash.
I've no idea how its stopped. Remember also,that when a a primary company fails its the tax payer who has to pick up the tab: witness Carillion or care homes,or,in the past Rolls Royce. Then banks!
As far as GB is concerned I don't see anything now that cant be shipped off overseas and done there cheaper. Speaking tounge in cheek I'd like to see the BBC closed down,most personnel replaced by lower paid English speakers in India or wherever. We could then pay a token fee of one GBP. I wonder how their well paid staff would 'like it up 'em'. The lower orders are taking pay cuts every day. I'd outsource every job over 100k to foreign competition. This would be non discriminative practice! PC pus,plus,plus. I think they'd be crying in their muesli every morn. Sob,sob,sob

Audrine

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #11 on: Jan 11, 2019, 04:11:43 PM »
Morris Minor cars are tremendously popular over here. They are still made in the UK, so what is the problem?

Ashy

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #12 on: Jan 11, 2019, 04:15:31 PM »
I think a copy of the Morris is made in India, not in Britain.
Freedom is slavery. Leave means subjugation. Apparently

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zoony

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #13 on: Jan 11, 2019, 04:27:06 PM »
Morris Minor cars are tremendously popular over here. They are still made in the UK, so what is the problem?


Are you sure they're Morris Minors Audrine? Can't imagine them being popular in the US.
  Could you mean the Mini?
Content with little but a little more would be nice.

Michael Rolls

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Re: where is it all going to end.
« Reply #14 on: Jan 11, 2019, 04:29:14 PM »
Without checking, I thought that it was the Morris Oxford that found favour in India?
Mike
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