Author Topic: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax  (Read 227 times)

biglouis

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zoony

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #1 on: Jun 10, 2019, 09:23:05 PM »
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Bobcat

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #2 on: Jun 10, 2019, 09:42:59 PM »
I'm sorry I don't quite understand, do you object to council tax or putting people in jail for not paying ??

biglouis

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #3 on: Jun 10, 2019, 10:56:30 PM »
No one should go to prison for not being able to pay a tax.

Especially one which is so deeply unfair and corrupt in the way it is set up.

The entire debt industry in this country is sleasy and Dickensian. If I was Prime Minister tomorrow one of my first acts would be to ban the buying and selling of debts.
My second one would be to make parents pay for the resources which their children use.
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Goingtoseed

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #4 on: Jun 10, 2019, 11:49:59 PM »
No one should go to prison for not being able to pay a tax.

Especially one which is so deeply unfair and corrupt in the way it is set up.

The entire debt industry in this country is sleasy and Dickensian. If I was Prime Minister tomorrow one of my first acts would be to ban the buying and selling of debts.
My second one would be to make parents pay for the resources which their children use.


It's not a tax at all. All government departments have a choice how they collect a debt or force their authority so why not a local authority.
They can choose to go the Magistrates way or the County Court.
In either court all they ask is that a Magistrate or District Judge make an order for the repayment of the debt/or require attendance on a government officer at a given time and place..

It's when that order is not complied with that things change. Fail to ignore or refuse to comply will result in consequences.
You will be sent to prison for contempt of that Magistrate's Order and still have to pay the debt. The Magistrate could also order a removal of goods etc or take the money from their bank account.
The same goes for a County Court order, but a committal warrant is very rarely used.

The reason they go to a Magistrate as they are more likely to send you to prison than a County Court judge would - big stick and all that.

In my career with the government many was the time that I had a Committal Warrant issued by the High Court simply because the individual concerned decided that he/she didn't feel like coming to see me at my office. A van load of tooled up police officers, forced entry if  need be and the individual after leaving his/her home was seeing the inside of the nearest prison for an indefinite time until they decided to co-operate with me. All good fun especially around the Christmas/New Year period when I would be on leave for the three weeks holiday period. A colleague had the chairman of a well known football club removed to Walton Prison in Liverpool for the same thing.
« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2019, 11:54:00 PM by Goingtoseed »

zoony

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #5 on: Jun 10, 2019, 11:55:42 PM »
  All well and good but a refusal to pay is not the same as the inability to pay.
What help is there for people who've found hard times?
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Cee Gee

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #6 on: Jun 11, 2019, 02:23:14 AM »
goingtoseed.I found your contribution factual and quite interesting...but... the last paragraph was a bit sledge hammer and Walnut...and the fact you found it fun...well Mmmm. I stand with Zoony on this one..

Raven

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #7 on: Jun 11, 2019, 12:46:29 PM »
I also agree with Zoony, If you don't have the money then you don't have the money, and sending in "tooled up" thugs only makes it worse. Taking away their goods n chattels does no good either. If you did this type of work then you should be ashamed of yourself.

GrannyMac

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #8 on: Jun 11, 2019, 01:12:17 PM »
The difficulty is, people can have very odd soending priorities.  I met tenants in my job, who let their rent arrears spiral, and more than likely their council tax went unpaid also.  Those aren't tangibles, unlike new clothes, electronics, tv packages, alcohol, socialising etc.  If they were on a genuinely low income, we'd work together to make sure they got the help they needed to avoid eviction or bailiffs.  Can't pay is different to don't want to pay.


I've sat down with people and worked out income plans, and put them in touch with Credit Unions to help manage their money.
« Last Edit: Jun 11, 2019, 01:17:06 PM by GrannyMac »
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Raven

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #9 on: Jun 11, 2019, 03:13:07 PM »

The difficulty is, people can have very odd soending priorities.  I met tenants in my job, who let their rent arrears spiral, and more than likely their council tax went unpaid also.  Those aren't tangibles, unlike new clothes, electronics, tv packages, alcohol, socialising etc.  If they were on a genuinely low income, we'd work together to make sure they got the help they needed to avoid eviction or bailiffs.  Can't pay is different to don't want to pay.


Exactly, I was meaning those who can't pay. Work hard all week but still don't have enough money. A lot bury their heads in the sand and hope it will all go away, instead of doing as you said and getting help.

Goingtoseed

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #10 on: Jun 12, 2019, 05:40:54 PM »

Exactly, I was meaning those who can't pay. Work hard all week but still don't have enough money. A lot bury their heads in the sand and hope it will all go away, instead of doing as you said and getting help.



In those circumstances a second job is the answer surely?

I have always worked for the government and following the birth of our twin girls and being short of money I have driven a taxi at night, worked in various pubs, worked in nightclubs and even did a bit of debt collecting for a local money lender.

Being retired need not be an obstacle to a part time job.

GrannyMac

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #11 on: Jun 12, 2019, 08:02:41 PM »
Difficult for a lone parent who can only work part time around child care, school etc. It not only takes two to create a child, it can often need two incomes to provide enough support.
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Diasi

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #12 on: Jun 12, 2019, 09:22:54 PM »

In those circumstances a second job is the answer surely?

I have always worked for the government and following the birth of our twin girls and being short of money I have driven a taxi at night, worked in various pubs, worked in nightclubs and even did a bit of debt collecting for a local money lender.

Being retired need not be an obstacle to a part time job.

Snap, so that my wife could look after the children I always did secondary work in addition to my main job.

I set up a taxi business & I did self-employed discos in pubs amongst other things.

There is always work for those who want to find it & if you can't find it then make your own work.

P.S. There aren't prison sentences for not paying council tax & there aren't prison sentences for not having a TV licence but there are prison sentences for ignoring court orders to pay either.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2019, 09:39:19 PM by Diasi »
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Goingtoseed

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #13 on: Jun 13, 2019, 10:57:41 AM »

Absolutely!!


There was always work if you looked for it and as you have said if not, then do something for yourself from home.
A female friend of my wife's started off years ago doing party sales - from Tupperware to clothing part time in the evening. After a couple of years she had to employ her husband as the business had grown so much. At the age of 50 they both were able to retire with no money worries. no debts, two homes and a healthy bank balance.


 

Diasi

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Re: Ban prison sentences for unpaid council tax
« Reply #14 on: Jun 13, 2019, 11:24:48 AM »
Absolutely!!

There was always work if you looked for it and as you have said if not, then do something for yourself from home.
A female friend of my wife's started off years ago doing party sales - from Tupperware to clothing part time in the evening. After a couple of years she had to employ her husband as the business had grown so much. At the age of 50 they both were able to retire with no money worries. no debts, two homes and a healthy bank balance.

My wife did Tupperware sales in some evenings & did a Saturday shift at Tesco.

That was in the years where you got a very modest child allowance payment for any child except the first one, not £hundreds per week in Child Allowance & Child Tax Credit that's dished out today.

We always managed to have nice biggish detached houses which we funded by hard work, very few family holidays (although we sent the children on school foreign holidays), no new car, no smoking or drinking & no latest must-have spending on me & my wife.
« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2019, 11:31:04 AM by Diasi »
Make every day count. Every day is precious.