Author Topic: pip and pensioners  (Read 3144 times)

stellamaris

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #15 on: Jul 20, 2019, 11:54:19 AM »
I can't remember what day it is most days, would that count ?   :D :D :D


I think that should definitely count ;D .  I often get to around 6 pm and not having eaten all day, wonder why I am not hungry, and if it is a sign of anything.   Then I work backwards and remember that I had a really fancy lunch about 5 hours earlier ;D
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Goingtoseed

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #16 on: Jul 28, 2019, 02:22:27 PM »
I often thought that a reverse assessment would be useful.

This is where an assessor deems a person as not needing care, so the carer stops providing any care & the 'deemed fit' person then ends up in hospital time after time, until the DWP realises that £400 a month is cheaper than £400 a day.



I don't see the connection with not getting a PIP award and a carer stopping care.


Most carers are family members who would care irrespective of what the PIP decision is.
Under the 'old' system I would agree that the carer would probably lose their care allowance if a PIP award was not in place but under the new UC system that is not the case the carer would get the allowance just by saying that they care for someone for at least 35 hours a week.


Also I am so pleased that you agree that the tribunal system would rectify a bad PIP decision as quoted in my earlier post on the subject..
 

Goingtoseed

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #17 on: Jul 28, 2019, 02:25:48 PM »
Horror stories are published everyday where terminally ill claimants have been turned down for PIP being told they are not ill enough.
I think the whole PIP system is a mess. One of the side effects of outsourcing assessments to the private sector.
A very high percentage of claimants going to appeal are successful. That say's a lot about present system being not fit for purpose.



DLA face to face assessments were also outsourced just the same as PIP.


PIP was primarily brought out to save at least 20% that was being paid out under DLA Obviously more people were likely to lose out under PIP.

Goingtoseed

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #18 on: Jul 28, 2019, 02:33:49 PM »
The assessments are a load of rubbish to start with.

For the memory test, the assessor tells the person a word & then a couple of minutes later they have to repeat it. If they can repeat the word the person doesn't have a memory problem so no points.

For cognitive ability, the assessor asks the person to spell a short word, such as 'world', backwards & if they manage to do that they're deemed to have adequate cognitive reasoning so no points.

For the mobility test if the person can walk more than 200 metres, aided or unaided, then they're deemed to be mobile so no points.



In a way, what you are saying is the case.


Due to memory issues, an altered personality and cognitive issues, I spent two whole days having tests for those issues at the 'memory clinic'.
Both examples that you highlight do in fact form part of those tests. However what the PIP assessor does is only a fraction of the tests that are carried out. So yes in principle what the PIP assessor does could be said to be a mental health examination albeit not a comprehensive one.
Likewise with the mobility tests, these are laid down by law. If someone can walk aided or unaided for 200 metres then it is accepted that they are not severely disabled enough to qualify for the mobility element of PIP. 

mick607

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #19 on: Jul 28, 2019, 03:55:11 PM »


Likewise with the mobility tests, these are laid down by law. If someone can walk aided or unaided for 200 metres then it is accepted that they are not severely disabled enough to qualify for the mobility element of PIP.
Wrong, yet again GTS. If you did proper research you will notice the walking distance is 50 metres NOT 200 metres !I honestly just don't know where you get your facts from, you have been miles off the mark many times on this particular subject.
Also in the DLA days most assessments where carried out by local GPs, but not the claimants GP ! Those GP assessments were later farmed out to the likes of Capita etc being a much cheaper option with the introduction of PIP.

Goingtoseed

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #20 on: Jul 28, 2019, 11:38:40 PM »
Wrong, yet again GTS. If you did proper research you will notice the walking distance is 50 metres NOT 200 metres !I honestly just don't know where you get your facts from, you have been miles off the mark many times on this particular subject.
Also in the DLA days most assessments where carried out by local GPs, but not the claimants GP ! Those GP assessments were later farmed out to the likes of Capita etc being a much cheaper option with the introduction of PIP.



I'm sure that you don't actually read what people post.
I said that if someone can walk 200 metres or more either aided or unaided then they will be deemed to not have a mobility issue - thus no points would be awarded.
Why bring 50 metres into the equation? At best being able to walk no more than 50 metres would get you standard mobility. Being able to walk over 50 metres would not get you any award. You would only get the Enhanced if you cannot walk more than 20 metres.


I'm sorry you are wrong. The doctors that used to assess for DLA were under contract to the DWP by Medical Services. They may well have been GP's but in the main they were retired from general practice.
Price and value never came into it. Simply because very few DLA assessments actually took place. I claimed DLA in 1995 and had various reviews until I was assessed for PIP in late 2013. All of my DLA awards were the result of what was on the claim forms and a report from my GP when requested by the DWP. I never had an assessment.


The cost of assessments for PIP is far more than the assessments for DLA.
The real reasons for bringing out PIP was (a) to make it so difficult to qualify when compared to DLA, thus with the intention of cutting what was being paid out under DLA to claimants by at least 20% and (b) continual re-assessment in the hope that the DWP had more chances of cherry picking to reduce or eliminate the previous PIP awards.

GrannyMac

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #21 on: Jul 29, 2019, 06:10:02 AM »
I find it unforgiveable that some seriously ill or otherwise vulnerable claimants have fallen foul of the benefits system, as occasionally reported in the press.  There should be some method of triggering their cases to ensure their payments are continuous.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/21/stephen-smith-liverpool-seriously-ill-emaciated-man-denied-benefits-dwp-dies

They are at the other end of the scale to those who fabricate and enhance the seriousness of their condition in order to claim benefits.  I'm always pleased when their shenanigans are exposed.
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Goingtoseed

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #22 on: Jul 29, 2019, 10:28:26 AM »
I find it unforgiveable that some seriously ill or otherwise vulnerable claimants have fallen foul of the benefits system, as occasionally reported in the press.  There should be some method of triggering their cases to ensure their payments are continuous.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/21/stephen-smith-liverpool-seriously-ill-emaciated-man-denied-benefits-dwp-dies

They are at the other end of the scale to those who fabricate and enhance the seriousness of their condition in order to claim benefits.  I'm always pleased when their shenanigans are exposed.



Unfortunately, and if we are talking about PIP, it matters not how disabled or ill someone is when claiming PIP.
The benefit rules are that the impact you claim to suffer from because of that disability/illness must fit exactly the very narrow descriptors  that make up PIP.
On top of that you have to evidence not only the impact claimed but how it affects you.
Having got that far then you have to add up the points scored for those descriptors and if you score less than 8 points you will get no award. To get the basic award you have to get a minimum of 8 points up to a maximum of 11 points. If you get 12 or more points then you get the enhanced rate.
So it doesn't matter how the claimant is suffering it is all down to if the assessor/case manager decides what points are achieved.

GrannyMac

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #23 on: Jul 29, 2019, 06:16:33 PM »
Not everyone is literate or articulate. They are amongst the most vulnerable. I believe the safety nets were originally for them, but from what you say, its those who know how to evidence the impact of their condition who achieve the necessary scores.  What a farce.
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.

R. Gervais

Goingtoseed

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Re: pip and pensioners
« Reply #24 on: Jul 29, 2019, 07:13:46 PM »
Not everyone is literate or articulate. They are amongst the most vulnerable. I believe the safety nets were originally for them, but from what you say, its those who know how to evidence the impact of their condition who achieve the necessary scores.  What a farce.



You are absolutely right.
With the huge cut backs of funding for advice centres and local authority welfare rights officers, it is hit or miss if you can find a good quality welfare rights officer that will assist in making these claims for PIP.
There are many areas that are deserts and it is a case of DIY.
Those that find the claiming easy you can be guaranteed that they have someone professional that is helping them.


As for DIY, I'm certainly not without some knowledge and have a good grasp of the legislation. Yet I found it extremely difficult in even filling out the claim form!


So yes the very idea of it being a safety net for the vulnerable you can forget it. It all comes down to  having a professional on board.


On top of that you then take a chance on getting a good assessor who wants to do the right thing. Some of my PIP face to face reports could be sold as a fairy tale. My last one concluded that there is absolutely nothing wrong with me! It took the threat of taking the DWP to court before they decided that the report that they had based their original decision on was in fact not worthy of anything more than using it as toilet paper. My evidence contradicted every statement that had been written.