Author Topic: Shady practice  (Read 467 times)

zoony

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2020, 02:01:41 PM »
Unless you have bricklayers hands, never punch anyone hard in the face/head. The bones in the hand are surprisingly fragile, and you are likely to hurt yourself more than the well deserved recipient. Give Ďem a good kicking, preferably wearing heavy boots!
Mike


Absolutely correct and one of the reasons that bare-knuckle fights lasted so long. Very few head punches thrown or taken.
" There ain't no Devil, it's jus' God when he's drunk.."

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Jacqueline

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2020, 02:48:19 PM »
Unless you have bricklayers hands, never punch anyone hard in the face/head. The bones in the hand are surprisingly fragile, and you are likely to hurt yourself more than the well deserved recipient. Give Ďem a good kicking, preferably wearing heavy boots!
Mike


Thanks for the tip Mike, may come in handy one day ;D ;D ;D

John V

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2020, 02:58:27 PM »

Back in the day, credit cards were often a means to keep up with the Jonesís. Today itís a lifeline for many to ensure they can keep a roof over their heads. A simple emergency visit to a dentist for millions means financial difficulties that month.

Think about it. The foreign workers came here to escape poverty in the land of plenty and the British working class ended up lowering to their standards. Remember the days not too long ago when we were told we needed them and what a benefit theyíd be? Anyone still believe that? They came to do the work no one else wanted to do; the grueling physical low paid labour in employment that cater specifically for them.

https://onezero.medium.com/relentless-com-life-as-a-cog-in-amazons-e-tail-machine-d46b3ef05eb8

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/18/life-as-a-hermes-driver-they-offload-all-the-risk-on-to-the-courier

Itís no use saying whip them to work and give Ďem a bowl of gruel, but thatís what weíre going back to and many foreigners are now returning back to their own countries after the initial gold rush. Freelance, zero hour contracts, agency sub-contractors, Ďumbrellaí tax schemes Ö Iím glad Iím not starting my working life now.  :) 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/28/gig-economy-in-britain-doubles-accounting-for-47-million-workers     

biglouis

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2020, 03:21:20 PM »
These are examples of what is called "Taylorism" - a concept founded by the guy who invented time and motion studies. The idea is to treat workers like robots and to ensure that you get every iota of work out of them with no slacking. Amazon has raised this to an art form.

This is the kind of work Marx had in mind when he formulated his concept of alienation. People selling the labour of their hands solely to live but deriving no sense of satisfaction from it.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools.

GrannyMac

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2020, 04:42:12 PM »
There has always been mind numbingly boring work. Fruit picking  (done that), car cleaning (OH did that ), shelf stacking/production line (son did that in uni holidays),  cleaning (daughter did that when doing her training).  Those were never well paid, before min wage it was even worse!

Private sector workers when the closed shop was at its strongest got left behind as the biggest unions made the rest of us suffer. It's always been survival of the fittest, but the fittest keep changing!
'Man's inhumanity to man, makes countless thousands mourn!'

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John V

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2020, 05:42:53 PM »


These are examples of what is called "Taylorism" - a concept founded by the guy who invented time and motion studies. The idea is to treat workers like robots and to ensure that you get every iota of work out of them with no slacking. Amazon has raised this to an art form.

This is the kind of work Marx had in mind when he formulated his concept of alienation. People selling the labour of their hands solely to live but deriving no sense of satisfaction from it.


Yep and the other three alienation aspects. Yet the disturbing aspect for me is how Britain is declining to favour the developing countries of Eastern Europe and weíre slowly returning to the pre-war days of laissez-faire capitalism. Recreational drug use is now an epidemic, mental health rates are going through the roof and the middle class, which was once an aspiration, is collapsing.
   
The TV adverts are full of multicultural families with their mobile apps, buying stuff like thereís no tomorrow and rushing hectically around and thoroughly enjoying themselves, but what I see around me are food banks, minimum wages and people on benefits. We seem to be hurtling towards the US model, where people are judged by financial status and if you canít make a profit from someone they lose their value as human beings.
 

mick607

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2020, 05:46:46 PM »


Yep and the other three alienation aspects. Yet the disturbing aspect for me is how Britain is declining to favour the developing countries of Eastern Europe and weíre slowly returning to the pre-war days of laissez-faire capitalism. Recreational drug use is now an epidemic, mental health rates are going through the roof and the middle class, which was once an aspiration, is collapsing.
   
The TV adverts are full of multicultural families with their mobile apps, buying stuff like thereís no tomorrow and rushing hectically around and thoroughly enjoying themselves, but what I see around me are food banks, minimum wages and people on benefits. We seem to be hurtling towards the US model, where people are judged by financial status and if you canít make a profit from someone they lose their value as human beings.
Spot on.
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Goingtoseed

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2020, 06:05:53 PM »


Yep and the other three alienation aspects. Yet the disturbing aspect for me is how Britain is declining to favour the developing countries of Eastern Europe and weíre slowly returning to the pre-war days of laissez-faire capitalism. Recreational drug use is now an epidemic, mental health rates are going through the roof and the middle class, which was once an aspiration, is collapsing.
   
The TV adverts are full of multicultural families with their mobile apps, buying stuff like thereís no tomorrow and rushing hectically around and thoroughly enjoying themselves, but what I see around me are food banks, minimum wages and people on benefits. We seem to be hurtling towards the US model, where people are judged by financial status and if you canít make a profit from someone they lose their value as human beings.

We've always followed the USA with most things.
For example when did employees who worked together be called a team? Quite common now in the general workplace but not 40 years ago. Teams are made up of individuals and the failure of a team is measured by the least able individual to perform. That person will either have to come up to the standards of the better performers or they are down the road. As an employer how can you make a profit out of a team if there is one weak player pulling everyone back?
The measure of a good employee is measured by the profit that they make for the employer.

zoony

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2020, 06:19:35 PM »


   
The TV adverts are full of multicultural families with their mobile apps, buying stuff like thereís no tomorrow and rushing hectically around and thoroughly enjoying themselves, but what I see around me are food banks, minimum wages and people on benefits. We seem to be hurtling towards the US model, where people are judged by financial status and if you canít make a profit from someone they lose their value as human beings.




  I think we have a large number of lobbyists, the wealthy and a huge number of MPs pushing hard to bring our society down to the level that the US 'enjoys'. You're necessary only if you're productive. Only the wealthy can afford medical/dental insurance, most have it as part of one's contract of employment and it disappears when your job does...
  I loved America when I lived there but, like the Copacabana, that was 40 years ago when they used to have a show..Now it's a shi*hole...
" There ain't no Devil, it's jus' God when he's drunk.."

Tom Waites

Jacqueline

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2020, 06:43:40 PM »
From what I can make out (never been there, only what I see on TV) America is a place of two halves.  The well/better off are doing very well, many others live in  third world conditions.  Not a county I admire in any way.

John V

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2020, 06:47:32 PM »




We've always followed the USA with most things.
For example when did employees who worked together be called a team? Quite common now in the general workplace but not 40 years ago. Teams are made up of individuals and the failure of a team is measured by the least able individual to perform. That person will either have to come up to the standards of the better performers or they are down the road. As an employer how can you make a profit out of a team if there is one weak player pulling everyone back?
The measure of a good employee is measured by the profit that they make for the employer.


Thatís all very well and donít we all want a booming economy and low employment? Yet where does the employee fit into all this, because unlike the politicians, I donít see a booming economy staffed by workers on minimum wages and food banks. In the next recession which is surely going to come after the virus, I personally will take great delight at the howls of the greed obsessed corporations as their profits dip in revenge karma for the exploitation theyíve engaged in.

I think capitalism is fine, but to me society and the people it contains always comes first. I certainly donít want to see a return to the street riots of a few years ago, but I donít think weíre too far away from that.

What have we got left thatís of any use? The protection of the welfare system from absolute poverty and the NHS. Take those away and weíre slave labour. Maybe itís just me being a bit grumpy in my older years, but I donít see any future prospects. With the destruction of the heavy industries and the increasing wealth divide, I see a future two tier society of the haves and have nots.

Iíve been back in the UK a year and so Iíve not been indoctrinated into the delights of our new age society, but I donít like what I see. In a few months Iíll go back to Thailand to live out the winter months, or in todayís gibberish, Ďdiversify my portfolio of options.í  :)
 
 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 07:11:57 PM by John V »

Diasi

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2020, 10:10:05 PM »

In a few months Iíll go back to Thailand to live out the winter months, or in todayís gibberish, Ďdiversify my portfolio of options.í  :)

We have another member who spends the summer in the UK & the winter in Goa, so I see no reason why you couldn't do the same between the UK & Thailand.
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biglouis

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2020, 12:38:31 AM »
I spent a year working as a "Visiting Professor" in the Uni of Nevada back in the '90s. Uni of Nevada is just inside the city limits of - Las Vegas - so you can guess what kind of a time I had!

I rented the guest suite of one of the academics and got pulled into her glitzy social life as "my room mate from England".  The "room" was a villa at the bottom of her swimming pool. It taught me a lot about the American psyche.


Its fortunate that I am not interested in gambling. I once lost $20 in a poker game in a casino and walked away from the table. But I love to watch people gambling.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools.

GrannyMac

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2020, 06:50:57 AM »
As John says we have the welfare state and the NHS. The majority of us value both, and treat them with respect. 

But when and why did it become ok for a minority to abuse both?  The country needed some changes to the benefits system, to encourage those healthy people who rarely (if ever) work to take some responsibility for their lifestyles.  Unfortunately, some of the most vulnerable people have had the worst outcomes. I also know that not all foodbank users are genuine.

This lockdown period has stopped the chancers, the drunks, and those who've over indulged in their drug of choice from overloading A&E and the ambulance service.  I wonder how long that will last once a form of 'normality' returns.

I'm however a bit puzzled by John's assertion of the middle class collapsing.  Part of what we hear from others of our generation is that families used to all be in the same boat, poor but happy, didn't lock our doors etc.  Many on here moved up on the ladder of aspiration, and have children, and perhaps even grandchildren who have middle class life styles.  Societal studies have shown a large shrinkage in traditional working class households, as the middle has expanded.   Its those in the low paid, not classed as skilled (although that should be argued) jobs who are suffering. Not the doctors, lawyers, bankers, IT professionals, accountants, teachers etc.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 07:09:56 AM by GrannyMac »
'Man's inhumanity to man, makes countless thousands mourn!'

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Michael Rolls

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Re: Shady practice
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2020, 07:52:30 AM »
I suppose it depends on how far back you want to go for the comparison. Middle class familes - doctors, accountants, bank branch managers, that sort of level, often had servants in the early days of the 20th centuries - I remember talking to some GPs back around 1970 and one commented on how the 'level' for want of a better word, had changed since his father's day when 'the doctor's house' would have have had an attic room or two for a maid or the like
Mike
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