Author Topic: Start Asking Questions!  (Read 3305 times)

xetog

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #270 on: Sep 14, 2020, 09:02:28 AM »
When Blair outlined his grand ID scheme way back when, I thought it a good idea, but have since revised my ideas.  Blair failed with a civil service that backed him, I hate to think how the Tory's would fare. Even if things don't deteriorate as far as crabbyob believes (although I thought invoking Orville a nice touch), I have no faith in politicians dream projects.  Our elected representatives have few skills that lead to good technical decisions, hence their hapless approach to the current crisis and their reliance on some very dodgy science.


The old adage of a camel being a horse designed by a committee being very true in this case. A very good example is the current issue of test and trace or the phone app.  Rather than use tried and tested systems they went for a sophistication that does not yet exist, tried to force it through and failed miserably.  We have had so many similar examples over the years that I would say incompetence, or downright sabotage is the rule rather than the exception.


Mike.X
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crabbyob

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #271 on: Sep 14, 2020, 09:04:47 AM »
being honest, just how many in the civil service want all this to collapse?
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klondike

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #272 on: Sep 14, 2020, 09:08:30 AM »
or we might get a bar-code tattoo..
I think I can say that isn't likely - too much similarity to another solution of a lifetime ago.

We might get chipped like dogs though - quite appropriate considering how we are all regarded by our overlords.


crabbyob

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #273 on: Sep 14, 2020, 09:10:57 AM »
might that allow everyone to pee in the street
[i was going to say against a lamp-post but thought better of it]
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klondike

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #274 on: Sep 14, 2020, 09:13:32 AM »
The drunks already do in city centres of a night. Come to that the homeless must (and worse) as all the public toilets are probably closed. Northampton's were several years ago,


crabbyob

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #275 on: Sep 14, 2020, 09:15:53 AM »
because of 'cottagers' ....lol
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xetog

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #276 on: Sep 14, 2020, 09:28:04 AM »
At least all those who won't return to work crabbyob.


Mike ,X




If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

klondike

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #277 on: Sep 14, 2020, 09:44:05 AM »
because of 'cottagers' ....lol
It was because their finances were so bad. They were effectively bankrupt a couple of years back.


Michael Rolls

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #278 on: Sep 14, 2020, 10:18:26 AM »

One photo card that would biometrically hold NI, NHS, driving licence and citizenship details all in one place, including fingerprints, would get my support. It might make the job of the police and Border Agency simpler, and thats got to be a good thing.
Granny
The more I think about it, the more horrific such an idea becomes. If it works all the time, every time - not something one normally associates with government IT programmes - OK as far as it goes BUT what happens if you lose it or it is stolen? Again, if it is well enough thought out it might not be of any use to anyone else, but if anyone steals it - for example it's in your bag which is snatched - do you think they will give it back? And again - how much faith do you place in the technology.
But never mind all that - just a simple loss. What do then do? How do you set about proving your existence to the multiple agencies which will be involved - and all the time you are doing all that you are a non person.
Sorry, granny, but I really don't think that you have thought this through. It's a dreadful idea
Mike
The older I get, the better I was!

xetog

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #279 on: Sep 14, 2020, 10:55:52 AM »
Mike, I am not sure that those things are particularly valid.  There would be some security, fingerprint, facial recognition, password etc, or a combination of factors like we get with 2 stage security on many bank accounts these days, even my google account demands 2 step log in now I notice, so apart from name, age and address, I would think there would be little else on the face of the card.  Once you had signed in any information should be sectorial, i.e. medical and relevant data would only be open to access to clinicians etc.  As far as losing it is concerned, like credit cards there would be a number to ring to disable the data on the card and a new one issued on presentation of evidence of identity (passport etc).  I am not against the idea, but given the people government seems to trust to deliver such projects, it simply wont work.


I would be in favour of a structured approach with initially say a card for every British citizen who wanted one; credit card size like a bus pass, with simply basic info, say just name on the front and then on presentation at a card reader, your basic identity details like address and telephone number, age and a picture could be seen by those who you authorise through the 2 step security protocol.  The cards could come complete with plenty of memory these days or could connect to a database where your information could be kept, controlled by you.  Then, as the system were proven, more could be added at the individuals choice.  I would not be in favour of adding credit cards & bank details or any other things that are adequately covered already, but I would put my bus pass and driving license on there.


All a matter of taste I guess.  Whether or not it should be extended to other classes of citizen is another matter.


Mike.X
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

klondike

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #280 on: Sep 14, 2020, 11:26:26 AM »
> like credit cards there would be a number to ring to disable the data on the card and a new one issued on presentation of evidence of identity (passport etc).

It's simpler than that with my bank. A phone app protected by fingerprint or two factor authentication of a code number lets you simply block a card and order a replacement which turns up in a couple of days or so by post. Obviously any government one would probably be far more complex, less secure and buggy as it would be produced by the cheapest IT quote possible but it is at least possible.


xetog

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #281 on: Sep 14, 2020, 11:33:39 AM »
You are undoubtedly correct, but as with many of these things there is plenty of excellent technology available off the shelf so why not just buy that?


Mike.X
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

Michael Rolls

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Re: Start Asking Questions!
« Reply #282 on: Sep 14, 2020, 11:38:41 AM »
Mike, I am not sure that those things are particularly valid.  There would be some security, fingerprint, facial recognition, password etc, or a combination of factors like we get with 2 stage security on many bank accounts these days, even my google account demands 2 step log in now I notice, so apart from name, age and address, I would think there would be little else on the face of the card.  Once you had signed in any information should be sectorial, i.e. medical and relevant data would only be open to access to clinicians etc.  As far as losing it is concerned, like credit cards there would be a number to ring to disable the data on the card and a new one issued on presentation of evidence of identity (passport etc).  I am not against the idea, but given the people government seems to trust to deliver such projects, it simply wont work.


I would be in favour of a structured approach with initially say a card for every British citizen who wanted one; credit card size like a bus pass, with simply basic info, say just name on the front and then on presentation at a card reader, your basic identity details like address and telephone number, age and a picture could be seen by those who you authorise through the 2 step security protocol.  The cards could come complete with plenty of memory these days or could connect to a database where your information could be kept, controlled by you.  Then, as the system were proven, more could be added at the individuals choice.  I would not be in favour of adding credit cards & bank details or any other things that are adequately covered already, but I would put my bus pass and driving license on there.


All a matter of taste I guess.  Whether or not it should be extended to other classes of citizen is another matter.


Mike.X
I think that they are very valid. Look at the poor record of governments with IT. Even this track and trace system is a mess. Remember how the NHS was going to get a single system to cover all aspects of health cars? Wonder what happened to that.
If one were to lose such a multi-faceted item, do you really think it could be solved with a simple phone call?
I totally agree with the second statement that I have highlighted in your post
Mike

The older I get, the better I was!