Royal Mail.

[Wrinkles]

Did I miss something there? The thread seems to have veered off at a tangent.
It seems to me there was a logical progression from  Royal mail unions, strikes, privatisation and the EU but I can't see where the Nazis, holocaust and Jews come into it. Obviously it's Ivanhoe so one would expect Mrs T to be included as he is a firm believer in the moral decay, ignorance and rudeness that she extolled.
Did someone delete a couple of replies or did Ibanjo decide he was losing and decided to change the subject and hope we wouldn't notice?

[Edna]

Papaumau, Sorry you are wrong, the EU have nothing at all to do with British privatisation.

Privatisation has always been a policy advocated by the right of the Tory party.

Oh for goodness sake, why are you so intent on making a complete fool of yourself. The EU forced Royal Mail to open up its services to more competition. The information is out there if you can be bothered to look before sounding off on subjects you know little or nothing about.

[Ivanhoe]

Oh for heavens sake, the EU had nothing whatsoever to do with any privatisations in this country.

It is right wing Tory policy and that is all.

[Wrinkles]

From what I recall neither did the Nazis or the holocaust, although the Nazis did bomb a sorting office I think so perhaps that was the start of the decline. 

[Ivanhoe]

Wrinkle's you said """PaPa! pay attention and do try and keep up".

From a younger man/woman which you are, you insulted an older man, ie, Papaumau, now please apologise.

[Papaumau]

Papaumau, Sorry you are wrong, the EU have nothing at all to do with British privatisation.

Privatisation has always been a policy advocated by the right of the Tory party.

Let me try to qualify that statement shall I:

The European Union have always tried to influence it's member states to increase competition so that in the spirit of competition, ( most of which is in the hands of the private sector ), the consumers will hope to get a better deal.

This is a laudable idea but most of us know that as far as the so-called "open-market" is concerned fair competition does not exist. This is usually defeated by companies that get their heads together so as to fix prices, ( this is called cartelisation ), and while many of them do get caught at this there are many more of them that don't.

Free trade and good competition is a wonderful thing to talk about in theory but in practice it very seldom appears in today's market place.

If we want a good service IN ANYTHING we have to depend on the public services to supply it as they are not so badly driven towards profitability and where a service is required where money can not be made, ( in rural or low-population areas for example ), only the subsidised public services can provide such good services to all.

Even the bus and rail services in the private sector are subsidised by taxpayers money so that they can continue to provide these services where the profit motive on it's own simply fails.

Be sure that the New-labour government are hell-bent on the privatisation of the Royal Mail and that privatisation will be supported by Brussels and any group that think that privatisation is the panacea for all ills.

Patently, in many cases, it is not !

[Wrinkles]

Wrinkle's you said """PaPa! pay attention and do try and keep up".

From a younger man/woman which you are, you insulted an older man, ie, Papaumau, now please apologise.

?? Insulted??? heaven forbid, In the event that I have inadvertently insulted you Papumau then I apologise and I humbly beg your forgiveness. Now do try to keep up.
There is that better Ivanhoe? If so can I have some of your medication as it strikes me it pretty potent stuff. 

[Papaumau]

Not being a sensitive soul it takes a lot to "insult" me !

I in fact try hard to take something from what everybody says here and on my own forums as people who only look inwardly are inclined to become narcissist in mentality. ( Not directing that at anyone in particular BTW ).

Anyway, it is certain that this government - encouraged by the free-trade machinations of the EU - ARE hell bent on privatising everything that is not nailed down and much of it that is.

So long as we are aware of this they can not do us all that much harm !

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, Again I say to you that British privatisations under the Tories, were not due to European Directives.

Privatisations came into being because the right wing of the Tory party as were Thatcher and Major, believed in privatisation other than nationalisation.

Nationialisation was always traditional Labour.

[Papaumau]

While you might be right in that single idea you have to look a bit wider to find out what drives most of the private sector.

Yes Thatcher WAS a privateer - this is true - but I am sure that someone as aware as you obviously are should be able to see that New-Labour ran with the "privatise everything" dogma of the Tories. ( The only thing that they dared not privatise was the NHS ).

As "public enterprise" is a bit of an oxymoron in Europe AND out of it I think you will find that most of the gnomes of Zurich and the members of the European Commission are as closely tied to these privateer policies as our present and past governments in Britain were and still are.

[Ivanhoe]

Papaumau, Yes this is what ive been saying ever since I came on this site that New Labour have cointinued right wing Thatcherite free market policies since they came to power in 1997.

On Europe I think you will find that many, if not all EU Utilities, are still in public ownership, including their Railways.

[Papaumau]

Papaumau, Yes this is what ive been saying ever since I came on this site that New Labour have cointinued right wing Thatcherite free market policies since they came to power in 1997.

On Europe I think you will find that many, if not all EU Utilities, are still in public ownership, including their Railways.

While that is not always the case I too have extoled the great virtues of the European rail-services as opposed to ours simply because they are still - in the main - public services ran by the state.

This does not mean that Europe in general is left-wing as if you knew Europe in Germany and in Italy and in Spain and France - as I do - you will know that all four of these important member states have very strong fascist groups.

Yes - just like in Britain - they have swung back and forward from right to left and back again over the years but Britain has NEVER been as far over to the right as many of these states have in the past. Be assured that the fascists in Europe are still pulling many of the strings there and unlike in Britain they are always very close to the surface.

[Ivanhoe]

No, Europe are not left or right wing, and this in my opinion is due to their democracy being held together by their democratic voting system, ie proportional representation,, hence the far right movement in Europe being in existance, but in my opinion not having much power.

The vast difference between Europe and Britain re- the role of the State, is that across the EU the role of their state plays a vital part re- subsidy and investment ( because the EU populas pay higher income taxes than we British )

Wheras Britain's "Sate" is basically and fundamentally stigmatized.  It is fact that this and successive British overnment's use much less of our Gross National Product on our own services, than do the countries of Europe, and this is beause we are market lead, the EU isnt, the EU State plays a vital role.