Author Topic: EU opinion  (Read 7477 times)

cheddar-caveman

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2014, 04:40:05 PM »
The EU, at concept, seemed a good idea. However, what it has become, with all these bankrupt countries being allowed to join, is not and that was not what the original intention was.
This post is my opinion, which you may not like, but I'm entitled to it.
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Johned

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2014, 04:55:21 PM »
I have stated my opinion on a number of occasions but I want another referendum.  Strictly "In" or "Out".  When we had the original referendum under Boaty Boy Heath, I voted to go in as I saw it as a way to get over tarriff barriers for our manufactured goods in Europe.  Teddy knew differently about transferring powers to Brussels and eventual political union but most of those facts he chose not to share with the rest of us.  Later we had Johnny Major and Gordon the Gold Seller signing away more of our rights but they told us not to worry, they were only tidying up exercises.  I want back the right to legislate and enact our own laws, fish our own waters, keep out those we want to keep out and save over a billion pounds per month we spend in membership fees for this dubious club. Yes, call me a little Englander if you will, a patriot, my country right or wrong; however if granted a referedum and a healthy majority vote to stay in then I will, as a democrat, abide by that decision but the politicos must give us the chance!  Incidentally I don't think there is a genuine patriot with a love of his/her country among any of them.

Hugh

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2014, 05:11:42 PM »
We MAY get a referendum if Cameron still PM Johned. I don't think we would get one under Labour. 

cheddar-caveman

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2014, 08:28:46 AM »
We MAY get a referendum if Cameron still PM Johned. I don't think we would get one under Labour.
I see Cameron is already hedging his bets on this, playing the "if they "change" it may be better to stay in the EU" card. That means that he can hang on, not giving us the vote "in case" it changes. Typical bloody politician, hedging his bets. I think behind the scenes he is more of an "in" man than an "out". And remember this will only happen IF the Cons get back in power and IF Cameron is PM, both big "IF's"!
This post is my opinion, which you may not like, but I'm entitled to it.
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Hugh

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2014, 08:53:23 AM »
All the main party leaders want to stay in that's for sure. At the moment the bets are on the Conservative to regain power. Labour party just not making big head ways which they should be doing at this point in time. UKIP have help Cameron to get a deal with the EU. But if Scotland decides to go it alone in 4 month time that could really change things because he will have less pulling power.

xetog

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2014, 09:39:52 AM »
The Scots certainly consider all Westminster politicians rogues and cheats, the question seems to be; do they think that their own countrymen are any more trustworthy? I have relatives in Scotland who could be described as floating voters and from a phone call on Sunday it seems to be that they are weighing up whether they would rather be rooked by a fellow Scot than an Englishman  ;D .


M. 8)
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Johned

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2014, 10:20:45 AM »
When Kinnock was in charge of the Labour opposition years ago, they were so anti EU it was unbelievable.  What changed their attitude so that the party will not countenance a referendum regarding our membership in the future?  We all know Kinnock betrayed his principles and accepted a highly paid commissioners job in Brussels; he and his family did very well out of that suspect organisation.

Granny49

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2014, 10:34:08 AM »
All the main party leaders want to stay in that's for sure.

They do indeed Hugh, baring a few Conservative back benchers most of them do think staying in is best for the country just as you believe coming out is.  That does not make them less patriot, more inclined to feather their nests, etc.  It could actually mean that, just as you have a strongly held view, so do they. :)  We also need to remember that over 70% of those who voted didn't vote for UKIP and this may be higher in the General Election so, presumably, coming out of Europe is not highest on their list either.

What would change the way you can read these figures is if UKIP put forward General Election policies which are as acceptable as the other parties (not a high bar there then :)) and showed they could run at least a party across the country and then the majority of people voted for them.

I don't think that will happen but we have a year to see.
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xetog

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2014, 11:56:41 AM »
I think that I have written before that the UK is not a democracy, but an oligarchy where the power is concentrated in the hands of a few.  most other European nations follow this pattern and therefore the EU adopts it as its model.  As wealth concentrates into fewer hands, so authority reduces to a few favoured individuals and their acolytes. In every country the masses (plebs) have the power to elect whichever party they consider will best serve their interests, but no matter which of the major organisations is granted power the same basic group of people remain in charge.  They form the Government (the cabinet) and fill the higher echelons of the Civil Service.  They have one task in mind and that is to retain the status quo by concentrating power in the hands of the 'liberal intelligentsia' sourced from a few approved educational establishments.


In or out of the EU, I cannot see an early change to this system.  Even in the unlikely event that UKIP were raised to power, how long before that party became as corrupt and self serving as the rest?  It seems to me the only way to even make a dent in this system is to have all government posts elected and that popular demand by the electorate (say 25%) can force a re-election for any post where they consider a public representative is not functioning as the voters wish.  The problem with that is that unless forbidden by law it will become yet another money chase. 


Unfortunately the EU will not change, so the necessary moves will only happen outside its power.  However, I have no faith that any of the major parties will preside over the split so our only hope is a new organisation with fresh ideas.


M. 8)
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.

Hugh

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2014, 12:20:18 PM »
 just as you believe coming out is.

 
Granny49 just because I support UKIP it doesnt mean I am fully convinced in coming out is. A strong UKIP party will make the other 3 parties sit up and take notice and listen to our concerns. At my age it really does not concern me to much.

 
I will admit I am really anti Labour party and Margaret Thatcher is my hero.  

Granny49

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2014, 12:38:33 PM »
Granny49 just because I support UKIP it doesnt mean I am fully convinced in coming out is. A strong UKIP party will make the other 3 parties sit up and take notice and listen to our concerns. At my age it really does not concern me to much.

I will admit I am really anti Labour party and Margaret Thatcher is my hero.  

We all have our own heroes Hugh, that's how it should be. 

It's interesting that you are not fully convinced about coming out.  I think if you did a poll that included "yes we think it's better to be in but you have gone ahead and done many things we didn't agree to and there are certainly some who want things than many other countries don't so please sort it out", that might well get the highest vote :)
Don't get my personality and my attitude confused.  My personality is me, my attitude depends on you.

MARTIN

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2014, 01:16:45 PM »
Do you know all Dutch expats had a letter from their government saying we know you have been used to living better than now but it was because of the world economy so we will be paying you another 25 € each week and back dated to March 2013.
Cameron told the British expats we paid you 200 or £300 Winter Fuel Payment a year and we are going to try and stop you getting that.
Personally I would like this money added to our pensions.   ::)
 

sarahbilly 1

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2014, 02:33:58 PM »
sorry hugh, the last person i would put in the hero status would be the most divisive of all,   mrs.thatcher.

Hugh

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2014, 04:06:56 PM »
sorry hugh, the last person i would put in the hero status would be the most divisive of all,   mrs.thatcher.


Sarah while labour party were in power before Margaret Thatcher we financially suffered.  Inflation was really high and coal field workers and other industries were given inflation busting pay rises of 10% and more. This went on for several years. To really rub it in the labour leader at the time was bragging he was keeping the average pay rises down to 6% Mugging here in the forces was given 1% and one year no pay rise at all. When Margaret Thatcher came to power she gave us a 40% just to catch up but I still lost a lot of money under Labour. This pay rise made a big difference to my forces pension. Yes many people suffered under Margaret Thatcher but I had my turn under Labour leadership.

firenze

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Re: EU opinion
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2014, 04:12:22 PM »
Stand easy!.....  I have just been reading weekend newspapers The Sunday Mail tells of an earlier statement made by Nigel Farage " that he will quit politics ...once he has got the UK out of the EU" . Perhaps that will mean he will do a Tony Blair and then make a fortune. ;D
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