Author Topic: Have we hit rock bottom?  (Read 3249 times)

John

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Have we hit rock bottom?
« on: Dec 17, 2009, 10:19:01 AM »
Two 10-year-old boys were charged yesterday evening with raping an eight-year-old girl.

In March, it was reported that an eight-year old boy became the youngest person to be questioned by police on suspicion of rape. The boy was held after a girl aged under 10 claimed he had attacked her, but detectives who questioned him were powerless to arrest or charge the boy because of his age.

In 2004, 12-year-old Kyle Abdo became Britain's youngest-known rapist after he was convicted of attacking a nine-year-old girl. Abdo, who was 11 at the time of the incident, attacked the girl during a game of hide-and-seek at his home.

In February last year, a boy who admitted raping a seven-year-old girl when he was 11 became one of the youngest children to be convicted of the offence in Britain. The boy who could be named for legal reasons, carried out the attack during a drunken truth-or-dare game. The boy drank four cans of lager and two miniature bottles of vodka before the assault.

The rock bottom part - Brown and his government want to raise the age of criminal responsibility to 14.

Papaumau

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #1 on: Dec 17, 2009, 12:29:05 PM »
That started off very perspicaciously and sadly ended up just another attack on Brown.

Even if you cannot see the reasons behind this suggested move, I can, as I am aware of how advanced SOME kids are becoming these days.

Kids are kids and where the line is drawn here is arbitrary at best but I am sure that you will agree that they are generally aged beyond their years these days.

"Criminal responsibility" is another of those terms that is wide open for interpretation as like in many other subjects this subject can not be stereotyped to any particular age. Every child is different and while some children are quite aware and mature for their young years some older ones - especially boys - are still very immature even into their late teens.

I have four years service in my local Childrens Panel with which to come to these conclusions, where do your opinions come from ?

Regards....

Papaumau.



John

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #2 on: Dec 18, 2009, 10:56:43 AM »
'where do your opinions come from?'

From a wider area of experience of just a Childrens Panel.

How twee is that in a society blighted by social disorder.

There is too much discussion and too little action.

Apart from that Brown will not be held in high esteem

or of someone who is capable of leading this Country into anything

other then hardship.

Papaumau

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 18, 2009, 12:15:04 PM »
"TWEE" eh ?

I see that as just another way that I have broadened my horizons and kept my knowledge fresh and relevant.

Anyone who gets bogged down by dogma, single-issues and narrow-mindedness is always going to have trouble getting out of that particular rut.

Now, I plan NOT to let this get into slanging match or a flaming session as my time is more valuable than that.

YOU...can please yourself !
Regards....

Papaumau.



John

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #4 on: Dec 21, 2009, 11:51:17 AM »
We are still hitting rock bottom and will go below that if Gordon gets back in.

As for the Children's Panel - bring back the Juvenile Courts for the
young wannabe criminals.

Those that want to be the hard men (and women) of the future should
not be mixed in with other children in proper need.

Obviously my view will go against the desk-bound twee brigade and
the public media company engaged to sell this.

John

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #5 on: Dec 27, 2009, 11:38:26 AM »
I would have liked to have seen a comment of going back to Juvenile Courts as opposed
to Children's Panels.

Lets stop pussy footing around the new generations of young thugs and criminals and
making everything too fluffy.

They just get more violent and laugh louder at softness.

Papaumau

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #6 on: Dec 27, 2009, 01:20:08 PM »
OK..I suppose two posts one-after-the-other is asking for a response.

Well, while I agree that the punishment should fit the crime I am not one of the flog-em and hang-em brigade, unlike some, I might suggest.

Children's panels - at least in Scotland - have a double purpose to carry out as it is their remit to take action on cases put forward by the Reporter to the Children's Panel on both offending children and OFFENDED-AGAINST children. By looking carefully at and debating all of the evidence gathered by the Reporter to the Children's Panel they are able to make rulings as whether a protection order should be issued or even if on occasion a case should be referred to a higher court for disposal.

Yes, the Children's panels are short of actual powers to do much themselves but they are VITAL as far as being an interface for children to either get help or advice or punishment as and when this is required.

What is  - in my opinion - the greatest weakness of the Children's Panel system is the chronic lack of options available to the panel for the disposal of cases. Where a child may need protection there are not nearly enough places with which to do this and where the public need protection from some of the very young offenders there are not nearly enough secure places to send them to that might suit their specific ages that are outwith the young-offender and adult prison regime.

This situation makes the power of the Children's Panel system ineffectual and often a waste of time and a waste of the few resources that they do have at their disposal .

To lurch back into the bad old days of the juvenile courts would be a retrograde step and it is always better to look forwards than backwards in situations like these.

It was because of the situation highlighted above that made me decide not to serve on my  local Children's Panel any more.

This does not mean that the idea is not an excellent one; just that it needs fixed if it is to work correctly.
Regards....

Papaumau.



John

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #7 on: Dec 27, 2009, 11:59:10 PM »
Thanks for your candid reply.

Another case (and there are many) of doing things on the cheap in
the United Kingdom.

Because whatever money is thrown at matters such as these - the
majority is sucked off by the system itself.


Papaumau

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #8 on: Dec 28, 2009, 12:24:57 PM »
May I also point out - while I am on the subject - that almost all members of the Childrens Panels in Scotland are unpaid volunteers and only the full-time Chairperson and each local full time Reporter to the panel are paid a salary.

In other words this is a valuable and even essential service for kids that is carried our in Scotland very cheaply in comparison to the full courtroom procedures.

It is just a damned shame that the infrastructure that is supposed to support the actions of the Childrens panels is so abysmally poor and done "on the cheap ".

NB.......

If anyone is interested they can find out more about the Scottish Childrens hearings system here: http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pdf_extract/15/4/333
Regards....

Papaumau.



John

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 30, 2009, 12:58:09 AM »
I did not think for a minute that the Volunteers would have been paid.

This is part of British Justice on the cheap.

Is it really worth putting yourself at risk for absolutely nothing?

I do not think so.

Yes mentioning Brown and his control freak ways and no Jury Trials.

This will be another great money saver - making up Iraq type
threats to get cheap trials and a result the system wants.

And they point out China failing on human rights...

(only applies to England and Wales for now)

Papaumau

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 30, 2009, 12:16:22 PM »
I think that when a service is done for free by people who just want to make things better, ( there are many thusands of volunteers doing wonderful work all around the country - for nothing ), then these people should at least be recognised for what they volunteer to do in their own time.

Where such services are given within a government framework they should be given all of the support that they need to do the job. If they don't get this support then we often find that people like me stop doing the service because they see nobody else giving a damn about it.

This is not just Brown's remit, it is the remit of all people - of all hues - who are supposed to work for us as our members of parliament.
Regards....

Papaumau.



John

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 30, 2009, 10:47:30 PM »
Within this Government framework they are likely to be window dressing
or puppets.

When there are comments about the status of old people that no longer
work, little notice is taken of what they say on that basis.

The same goes for the unpaid volunteer as opposed to someone being
paid will have an higher regarded opinion.

Papaumau

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #12 on: Jan 01, 2010, 12:35:28 PM »
At least when we see volunteers doing a job that they see as worthwhile we know that they are not bowing down to the great God Mammon while they do it.

I use this premise when I am going through the high-street in any town of Britain: When I see a person stopping people on the street asking for money for this or that charity I firstly look for the ubiquitous clipboard and tabard and if I see them I ask..."Are you doing this as a paid job or are you doing it as an unpaid volunteer ?". If the answer comes that they are paid to harangue the public for money then I politely tell them to go and get a real job. If they say that they are unpaid volunteers I am much more likely to give them a few coins for their trouble.

THAT, to me, is the difference between people who do a job because they feel that the job is important enough to give their time freely and the ones that do it for the money.

Extending this premise a bit further  I equate all of the "servers" of this country as...are they worth their remuneration or are they just doing it for the big bucks.

That maxim has stood me in good stead for many many years.
Regards....

Papaumau.



John

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 02, 2010, 03:49:25 PM »
Without doubt Charity Chuggers would lie if they thought they could get money off you.

They normally prey on young people to attempt them to commit to a Direct Debit - you
know the type starts off at £3 a month.

It would take at least 18 months at this rate just to pay them their commission.
 
Some Street Collections do not even cover the administration costs of some charities.

Examples are the RSPCA (who never seem to be available unless there is a film crew) and
Guide Dogs for the Blind.

Papaumau

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Re: Have we hit rock bottom?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 04, 2010, 12:38:21 PM »
And what is worse is that the likes of the RSCA and the RSCC canvas for money on the streets and in the television adverts of Scotland and spend that money only in England and Wales.

While they do this the  Royal Scottish Society for Cruelty to Animals , the ( RSSCA ) and the Royal Scottish Society for Cruelty to Children, the ( RSSCC ) are not allowed to raise any money in England and Wales.

Just another of my pet peeves ! 
Regards....

Papaumau.