Author Topic: Danish law  (Read 2809 times)

Strac

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #30 on: Mar 09, 2014, 09:05:07 AM »
Have read that it is now possible to grow meat in a laboratory. After reading what a lot of people have written here about the ethics of slaughtering animals, I wonder if growing meat would be morally better. I suspect however that given the choice most would choose the slaughtered meat. If populations continue to grow at the rate they have it's almost certain our grandchildren will have to reconsider their food ethics.

Granny49

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #31 on: Mar 09, 2014, 10:01:03 AM »
I am not sure about the immorality of killing to eat per se Strac.  Yes, we should do it as humanly as we know how, but I don't even mind hunting if you eat your kill.  My father used to hunt wild boar and deer in his late 20s and early 30s and my brother was a fine shot - although I only remember rabbits coming home via him.  By his 80s my father said he would not do it if he had his time again but I know the meat was welcomed by all who received it as this was in Germany just after the war where food was still a problem so I was surprised that he had changed his feelings on this.
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Citizen68

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #32 on: Mar 09, 2014, 05:31:36 PM »
Circumstances do alter cases, of course. It is easy for any one of us to make high-flying moral judgements when standing in a supermarket absolutely packed with food.


Many of us have never been in a life or death situation. If you and your family were at risk of starving to death, you would have to be a very strong person to resist killing an animal that strayed into your path

granny bee

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #33 on: Mar 09, 2014, 09:55:14 PM »
Very good coverage on this subject on Countryfile tonight - apparently far more of this meat than can be consumed on religious grounds is being circulated to the general public, certain religions will not eat the rear quarters of animals, and therefore these  are sold on!

Granny49

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #34 on: Mar 09, 2014, 10:10:56 PM »
I saw that too Granny bee.  You would have thought the concerns about traceability after the horsemeat scandal would mean they would know which meat was being fed into the system in this way. 

Although I would want to know more about how all animals are killed before I came to any conclusion about banning halal, etc., I certainly think people should have the choice about not eating it.  I thought it was a very good piece.

Don't get my personality and my attitude confused.  My personality is me, my attitude depends on you.

xetog

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #35 on: Mar 10, 2014, 09:53:55 AM »
I missed Countryfile last night as I do most weeks, because I am speaking to my sister on Skype at that time.  However, the thoughts springing from it are very interesting.  I cannot vouch for the veracity of the reports, but I understand that some schools are only using halal/kosher meat now because it's easier than catering for a minority, but am I wrong in thinking that if only a minority want something different to the majority, they should provide it for themselves, or go without?
 
 
Incidentally, quite a few countries ban the ritualistic slaughter of animals for food, including Poland and Holland.  If I don't approve of the idea of killing animals for food, I have the choice of eating a vegetarian diet and that's fine, but if I don't like the idea of eating animals that have been killed following some questionable methodology, I have no choice, because it can be put into my food chain irrespective of my feelings in the matter.  Why does that not work both ways?  (Don't bother to tell me, I know the answer).
 
 
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firenze

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #36 on: Mar 10, 2014, 09:56:04 AM »
This item on Countryfile was very enlightening.  I thought the Muslim owner of the slaughterhouse was a man of his convictions.  Watching this item I found it difficult but as a meat eater I needed to watch shaken by especially the sheer number of animals dealt with.  I am aware how easy it is to divorce the animal from the tidy tray displayed in the supermarket. 


I am reading the Jay Rayner book "A Greedy Man in a Hungry World" perhaps he may offer an angle on meat and its process for the eater. I will report!
Age is a question of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.

Mark Twain.

Granny49

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #37 on: Mar 10, 2014, 10:06:01 AM »
It was very interesting - you may be able to see it on iPlayer xetog.  I came away thinking we needed to know more and have a proper discussion.  I feel I do not know enough about it.

You put it so nicely Firenze when you said "the Muslim owner of the slaughterhouse was a man of his convictions."  I thought he came over as being rather entrenched in his views.  It needs parliament to be in control of what happens and a proper comparison of suffering - which does seem a little bizarre when we face up to the fact that we are, whichever way we do it, killing animals for food. 
Don't get my personality and my attitude confused.  My personality is me, my attitude depends on you.

cheddar-caveman

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #38 on: Mar 10, 2014, 10:18:26 AM »
All Muslims are "entrenched" in their views G49 as they are indoctrinated from birth that theirs is the only way! This is why they are such a strong religion!
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xetog

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #39 on: Mar 10, 2014, 11:23:39 AM »
Are we all on here, not slaves to our convictions whatever they may be?  Where we differ, we attempt, for the most part, to argue those convictions and if we feel we are mistaken, hopefully we change our opinion having "seen the light".  I am convinced that there is no entity that we call a god.  Does that make me any less driven by my convictions than anyone who does believe that we are governed by a deity?  I would not denigrate anyone who has a conviction (provided it is not criminal :) ), and am always ready to listen to a logical argument for that point of view.
 
 
That makes no argument as to why my conviction should override someone else's and surely argues for some sort of natural justice arrived at by democratic means.  If the majority feel that it is right to allow the slaughter of sentient creatures by slitting their throat, then it must be OK in law, if not in the minds of those who vote against it.  I am fairly sure that if it were put to the vote, the principle would be defeated but our leaders won't do that, so all we can do is to say I believe this practice to be wrong.
 
 
A final point.  If it is right that slitting throats is a humane way to execute, why do we recoil when barbaric Arab factions execute their captives in this fashion?  Surely if its humane for animals, it's humane for humans?
 
 
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Granny49

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #40 on: Mar 10, 2014, 02:23:25 PM »
All Muslims are "entrenched" in their views G49 as they are indoctrinated from birth that theirs is the only way! This is why they are such a strong religion!

That is about as true as interviewing some Christian extremist from the bible belt in the USA and then saying all Christians are "entrenched" in their views.
Don't get my personality and my attitude confused.  My personality is me, my attitude depends on you.

Granny49

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #41 on: Mar 10, 2014, 02:29:54 PM »
Oh that "entity we call God" now there's a conversation xetog :).  I'm afraid I agree with you about convictions, beliefs, principles, etc., some extremely "good" people are within religion and so are some extremely wicked and unthinking ones, and the same applies to those without a religion.
Don't get my personality and my attitude confused.  My personality is me, my attitude depends on you.

xetog

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Re: Danish law
« Reply #42 on: Mar 10, 2014, 03:28:52 PM »
I think we had the conversation once before G49, so I don't want to start it up all over again.  You will note that I used the term god (small g) so as not to offend, or single out any particular deity.  Since the time mankind first walked the earth people have found gods to worship and the ubiquitous today, most referred to as God, in different languages, is simply one of thousands over that time.  It has seemed that anything will do from a big post sticking out of the ground to the Sun, or those of Greek mythology.  Now, having run out of models the deity has become supernatural and unseen.
 
 
What bugs me about religions is that they seem to think they have cornered the market on morals.  They want to set me up with rules for my life that assume I won't be as honest, trustworthy, forgiving, considerate, sympathetic...........  if I don't toe the religious line and act that way because I want salvation.  Well here is the news, I do my best to be moral and all those other thing I mentioned in spite of, not because of the existence of religion or salvation.  I can't see where being religious has stopped people committing crimes, abusing children and breaking the law in so many other ways.
 
 
Ok, I am working myself up a bit here, so I will stop.
 
 
M. 8)
If you want to control peoples thoughts, first control their words.