Author Topic: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?  (Read 6945 times)

ronyork

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #15 on: Mar 27, 2014, 09:04:15 AM »
Granny mac. Stand bye I have news for you. Following are some absrtacts from my M.P. when Iived in York. Pensions, WHERE THERE IS A POLYGAMOUS  MARRIAGE.  The claiment and one spouse will be paid the couple rate Every additional spouse ill be paid arounnd one third of this amount. He adds I agree with you this is completely unacceptable and will undermind confidence in the benefits system. This in a country that says one man can only have one wife. what next in rule changes Ihave another letter which tells me it could be six spouses this letter I have mislaid. They must think its wonderland or we must be stupid.

Granny49

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #16 on: Mar 27, 2014, 09:41:55 AM »
This is, as always, so much more complicated than the questions asked.  So I would ask some more:

1.  Why isn't "care" paid for under the NHS?
2.  If we have to pay "hotel" charges when in care why are they not charged to everyone using the NHS?

Of course pensioners do pay "hotel" charges if they are in hospital for more than 6 weeks when, I believe, their state pension stops.  I may be out of date about this information but I can remember my father, who was in hospital a lot for medical conditions, being terrified that he would be kept in for more than that length of time.*

3.  What is the split in costs for "care" and "hotel charges"?

Edited to say: I thought I had better check that as it is some time ago.  I don't think I listened carefully enough or it was just my father's fears.  You may loose some additional benefits - such as Attendance Allowance but it does not affect your pension.  I hope I haven't frightened anyone :-[
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GrannyMac

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #17 on: Mar 27, 2014, 10:37:45 AM »
Ron, have you not considered that it costs the DWP less to give each person classed as an additional spouse one third of the going rate of benefits than it would to pay them the full going rate as a single person?   


Also, if the husband is in work, it's likely he'll be supporting these 'wives' and none would get benefits as they would be assessed as a family.  If those women claimed as single people just sharing accommodation, they'd probably be entitled to benefits.   So it appears to me they are saving the taxpayer money by claiming to be in a marriage.



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ronyork

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #18 on: Mar 27, 2014, 11:13:08 AM »
GrannyMac. As my M.P,stated it seems to undermine the benefit system,  In our country  its  law that one man takes one wife surely the law is being broken but to allow a man to take more than one wife and be allowed to claim a state pension for I believe up to six wives seems wrong. Do these men with more than one  wife pay more (if working) into the the pot I doubt it, again this seems unfair throughout my working life part of my national insurance contributions have gonr towards mine and my wife,s pension surely if the man claiming a pension for multiple wives should make a bigger contribution if the wives are or have worked thing would be differant but in many muslim families the wives never work. I picked  up this anomaly while listening to parliament, Does this seem right to other forum members. Ialso believe not all wives have to reside in the U.K.

stellamaris

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #19 on: Mar 27, 2014, 11:28:16 AM »
Well I don't think I can add anything to Peter Pensioner which is the third post into this thread.  It echoes my thoughts pretty well, especially about the choice, or lack of.   If you want to be able to pass on your assets, at present the only way is to die healthy.
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xetog

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #20 on: Mar 27, 2014, 12:31:44 PM »
Just a couple of points I would like to add to this discussion;
 
 A married / civil partnership couple have the right to a joint (married man's) state pension only if one has never made state pension contributions of their own.  If the partner as built up any SP by means of even the smallest of contributions, the partner with the main contributory record gets only the single persons pension.  In this instance, I have paid all my working life to build up a state pension for myself and my wife, but because she made some contributions on her own account we get less than we would have done if she had never contributed at all.
 
If a couple divorce and one has no contributions, then that partner has to begin building up their state pension from scratch having no right to benefit from any contributions by the paying partner.
 
 
M. 8)
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peterpensioner

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #21 on: Mar 27, 2014, 02:48:49 PM »
A scenario for you to consider. Two identical families both identical in every way except for one thing, one couple decide to buy a house to live in the other rents and saves/invests his money. They both work all their lives and have never been dependent on the state. Today they and both happy living in retirement one owns a house worth £250,000 but has no cash/savings the other has £250,000 in the bank, in cash. They are both fit and well but just very frail and have to go into long term care. Should they then
a) be treated identically and both have to fund their care, or
b) be treated differently and one pays for care and the other doesn’t.
Answers on a post card please!!

Granny49

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #22 on: Mar 27, 2014, 03:34:18 PM »
If a couple divorce and one has no contributions, then that partner has to begin building up their state pension from scratch having no right to benefit from any contributions by the paying partner.

I don't think that it is quite so simple xetog.  It may be (going to be) true under the new single tier pension but, as far as I am aware, if you divorced any benefits you would have received up under your ex partners contributions to the point of the divorce would be taken into account when calculating your state pension.  I think you would also have received some contributions to account for any years you were not working but receiving child allowance too.  This has all changed so much over the years that I am not sure but I don't think it is so straightforward.
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Granny49

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #23 on: Mar 27, 2014, 03:47:59 PM »
I found this xetog:

What happens if my marriage or civil partnership ends?
You may be able to use the National Insurance contribution record of your ex-husband, ex-wife or ex-civil partner to help increase your basic State Pension if:
• you are divorced
• your marriage has been annulled, or
• your civil partnership is dissolved (legally ended) or annulled.
This won’t affect your ex-partner’s basic State Pension. If you remarry or form a new civil partnership before you reach State Pension age, you lose this right.
The rules will be affected if Parliament approves the government’s plans to change the State Pension.

*https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/261312/dwp026.pdf
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Citizen68

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #24 on: Mar 27, 2014, 04:08:49 PM »
Wasn't there some mention a while ago, that they were going to bring in compulsory contributions towards any need for care when elderly?


Also: I am wondering if the introduction of same-sex marriages is going to complicate the qualifying requirements of the benefit system. E.g. wives may be seen as having stayed at home to look after their husbands/children, will this apply if one of two men wants to stay at home as a 'house husband' and be kept?

Granny49

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #25 on: Mar 27, 2014, 04:17:21 PM »
I think this is one of the biggest changes in society Citizen68 in that each person will be expected to earn their own pension with the new "single tier" pension.  There will be no pension paid to wives or partners on the contributions of their husbands/partners.  It seems a wife's first job is to earn, which is really going along with what has happened in society.   
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Phil

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #26 on: Mar 27, 2014, 08:07:25 PM »
A scenario for you to consider. Two identical families both identical in every way except for one thing, one couple decide to buy a house to live in the other rents and saves/invests his money. They both work all their lives and have never been dependent on the state. Today they and both happy living in retirement one owns a house worth £250,000 but has no cash/savings the other has £250,000 in the bank, in cash. They are both fit and well but just very frail and have to go into long term care. Should they then
a) be treated identically and both have to fund their care, or
b) be treated differently and one pays for care and the other doesn’t.
Answers on a post card please!!


How about this for a scenario. Two identical families both identical in every way except for one thing. One couple decide to buy a house & save & to do this they don't go to the pub every night & flush their wages down the drain or buy new cars or have 2 holidays each year. The others go to the pub each night, buy new cars & take 2 nice holidays each year.They are both fit & well but just very frail & have to go into long term care. Should they then
a) be treated identically and both have to fund their care or
b) be treated differently and one pays for care and the other doesn't.
Answers on a postcard please.
Oh, hang on, the holidaying car buying drinkers don't pay so no need to answer.
Lol !!
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peterpensioner

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #27 on: Mar 27, 2014, 08:17:51 PM »
Phil - is it correct to answer one question by asking another?

Phil

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #28 on: Mar 28, 2014, 08:14:15 AM »
Phil - is it correct to answer one question by asking another?


Why shouldn´t it be? Lol!

You posted a scenario that asked questions & I posted a scenario that asked a question.
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Granny49

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Re: Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?
« Reply #29 on: Mar 28, 2014, 08:32:54 AM »
Your scenario raises a valid point Peterpensioner.  We do seem to behave very oddly re houses altogether.  I have said it before but it is just a capital asset and I do not understand why (well I do, it would lose votes initially) they are not treated the same as any other asset and subject to capital gains.
Don't get my personality and my attitude confused.  My personality is me, my attitude depends on you.