Author Topic: Prison not working, so what's the answer?  (Read 9483 times)

stellamaris

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #15 on: Apr 01, 2014, 04:07:19 PM »
I agree there will always be crime.  But I do think too much expectation is placed on what happens after prison.  It is what happens before prison that is important.  If prisoners can't read or write and have had little training, that should not be laid at the door of prisons.  It is too late then - they are in prison and it will be with them for the rest of their lives.  Sure the prison can pick up what pieces they can but any failures to instil morality, to educate, to train, happen well before prison time comes along.
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sparky

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #16 on: Apr 01, 2014, 04:08:33 PM »
So send all our scum to Cuba

ronyork

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #17 on: Apr 01, 2014, 04:11:18 PM »
For Good'

GrannyMac

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #18 on: Apr 01, 2014, 04:48:49 PM »
Recidivists are one thing, but young first offenders surely should have every effort made to shape them into more decent citizens both for their benefit and for the rest of society.  Some people haven't had the kind of upbringing that steers them in the right direction, they may have been in care and passed from pillar to post for years.


Those of us who have worked with the homeless and other vulnerable people recognise that some have little chance of a decent life from day one.  Sometimes the right intervention can make all the difference.  It can also save taxpayers' money in the long run.
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.

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Jackie

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #19 on: Apr 01, 2014, 05:38:52 PM »
Whatever happened to borstal's that got abolished in 1982, and how did they fare to today's youth custody centres, any difference? was/is one working  better than the other.
Edited: I'm assuming two different governing bodies.

ronyork

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #20 on: Apr 01, 2014, 05:47:52 PM »
Well todays system appears not to be working.

Jackie

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #21 on: Apr 01, 2014, 06:18:37 PM »
If I remember right, the old borstal philosophy worked more on military discipline. If the discipline works for the military why not bring them back.

Johned

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #22 on: Apr 01, 2014, 06:36:50 PM »
Back in the early sixties our works Bowls team used to play against a team drawn from a local open prison.  The Governor himself used to play and, I recall, he told us all the facilities were available to teach any inmate who cared enough in a graduation process which started from complete illiteracy on entry to the establishment, to the award of a degree.  How many were interested enough, I don't know.  The prisoners we played against did not talk about their crimes but quite a few were ex professional men.  I remember I felt sorry for one poor chap who told me his crime was nothing to do with his former career but his professional body had removed his membership which he really smarted under the unfairness of that action and would hinder him getting a job on his release.

Jackie

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #23 on: Apr 01, 2014, 06:48:35 PM »
It seems by your story that many had the opportunities to turn their lives around yet quite possibly turned these chances down, where many non offending adults don't have these chances in life, something sounds wrong there..

ronyork

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #24 on: Apr 01, 2014, 07:03:39 PM »
When called up for national service, Young men from all areas of society had to get along together the cocky types and others from sheltered backgrounds. This was 1952 of course the I am not doing that brigade were amongst us but when they found out that general punishment was applied such as one misbehaving the whole barrack room of around 14/16 men (boys) suffered i,e all passes cancelled the N.A.F.F.I shut as well as the camp cinema (kinema) the clever ones suffered at the hands of their fellow room mates as a result, Hard yes but it worked. Awonderful two years for me (I was quite shy) Perhaps N/S IS THE ANSWER.

Jackie

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #25 on: Apr 01, 2014, 07:16:31 PM »
Yes I agree I have always felt along those lines.

Aduk

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #26 on: Apr 01, 2014, 07:28:55 PM »
Being tough doesn't work, nor does it reduce crime. Prisoners need educating and rehabilitating back into the community so they don't commit crime again and stand a chance of getting their lives together through employment and training opportunities if necessary. Many of these prisoners have mental health problems and suffer from drink and drug-related problems. Being harsh is not going to help them. It will make things worse.

stellamaris

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #27 on: Apr 01, 2014, 07:33:10 PM »
I am not sure I expressed myself clearly Granny Bee, but I agree with what you have said.  It is true than many people end up in prison because they have missed out on positive intervention in the early years. 


Jackie, Young Offenders Institutions replaced Borstals, and compulsory education is part of their programme.  I've heard people say that it is sink or swim in some of the YOIs so it must be very difficult for timid young people.  They take people up to the age of 18 but if their sentence is long enough they can then be transferred to an Adult prison.  Borstals were for up to aged 21 years.   Don't take this as gospel but I have a vague idea that once they reached 21 the sentence was over and they were released with possibly some outside supervision.


A major fault throughout the system is that prisoners are able to build their little kingdoms with few repercussions. They are a lot brighter than 30 or 40 years ago and know their "rights".  Prisoners fear their peers far more than they fear the police , prison staff, or public disapprobation.


I've taken so long over this post, trying to do 20 other things at the same time, that the discussion may well have moved on by now.


Keep on chooglin' - John Fogerty
Pronouns: She/Her/Beautiful/Wondrous one/Dearest Heart

Granny49

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #28 on: Apr 01, 2014, 07:47:34 PM »
I do wonder, if you took out the people with the sort of mental issues who would not have been "in the community" at one time, those with alcohol or drugs problems, and those who have not taken advantage of or been given appropriate education, just how many actually there would be left in our prisons.  We have used them as a dumping ground for years.

I don't object to a strict regime to get people on track but I certainly wouldn't like to see the legalised bullying that seems to have gone on for some young men during the national service. 

I think some of the problems stallamaris alludes to such as people becoming "top dogs" could be helped by having smaller, specific institutions so you would go to a drug rehabilitation prison, an additional learning prison, etc. 
Don't get my personality and my attitude confused.  My personality is me, my attitude depends on you.

Aduk

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Re: Prison not working, so what's the answer?
« Reply #29 on: Apr 01, 2014, 08:02:31 PM »
A tough communist approach such as compulsory national service is not the answer. These people don't need discipline, they need supporting. The government should stop making cuts to mental health services and drug/alcohol rehabilitation centres rather than dumping vulnerable people into prison.